Why you should be nice to axolotls

Also, for those who want to talk politics or the 'Original Intent' of our founding fathers. What is constitutional or not constitutional and NOT know the 'Truth' before you post, here is a link to a gentleman by the name of David Barton. Wallbuilders---http://www.wallbuilders.com/
He sets the record straight. But, if you want 'not' to know the truth, then don't go and learn. I do not want to, and will not talk politics. I want to talk Axolotls. Oh.....and Love.
 
Geron, are you anywhere near Glenrose Tx.? That is the home to the Creation Museum of Texas. The director use to have a TV show, (maybe still does). He is a panleontologist. He was an atheist. (I have nothing against atheists). I am pretty sure that I have heard him say that he was an atheist that set out to disprove the existence of God. But, his journey and the facts 'opened' his eyes. He probably can be found on you-tube too. Now, if you or anyone else 'likes' his info, I have names of geologists and anthropologist, that set out to do the same thing and ended up having their 'thinking' changed. Now for the rest of.you, I cannot understand why you are letting the emotion of anger and hate control you. I have not attacked, smeared, condemned, reviled, or said any hurtful thing to anyone. Everyone is firing on me, to prove what? Also, to let you know you are not hurting me or making me mad. It saddens me that we (educated, bright, humans) can not discuss a topic because of our tunnel vision thinking. No....I don't expect anyone to wake up in the morning and say......."Boy, is my thinking all wrong......everyone one else is right and I am wrong". Instead of anger and hate lets try compassion and Love. Love? Ask yourself what is Love? Its not a feeling or an emotion. What is it then? Come on now.....I know they don't teach this in any school. Love is a Spirit. That' correct. A Spirit. We as human beings are a tri-part being. Spirit, Soul and Body. So when a person lets emotions govern their thinking, they are letting their Soul govern their thinking. No...No...we "should" be using our Spirit, (heart, person, who we are) govern our emotions and control our bodies. Boy oh boy, I can here all of you scream now. What or who is God? The True God. The 'Truth", He is a Spirit. The Spirit of Love.

Here is the post: Creation Evidence Museum of Texas Online - Director's Bio

So instead of making an argument from authority (yet another logical fallacy) by naming geologists or anthropologists, why don´t you show those elusive "facts" that apparently changed these people´s minds? These people like the creator of that museum (i died a little right there) are not concerned about evidence, they are only concerned about their fundamentalist religious beliefs. There is no evidence behind creationist believes, and of course no science whatsoever.

I would apreciate it if you could stop trying to paint the people who disagree with you as angry or hateful. That´s very dishonest and does not in any way validate your possition. We are frustrated, which is quite different from "controlled by hatred". You keep making bold extraordinary assertions with not even the slightest attempt to back them up. We are trying to correct them but of course that takes a lot more time and effort than just quick-firing unsupported claims.

Love IS an emotion, it IS a feeling and a wonderful and powerful one at that. If you are defining your god as the spirit of love, first you would have to define spirit (good luck with that) and secondly, we already have a word for love...it´s "love". By calling it god you are adding something else onto it and you need to specify what that is.
My heart pumps blood...that´s pretty much it other than some physiological activity. Who i am, my personality, my emotions, my memories, etc, are all properties of my brain and they can disappear (you should look into cases of brain damage, they are fascinating). The fact that i can suffer damage that could erase my personality, my memory or that i could loose tha hability to feel certain emotions or recognize members of my family makes it plainly obvious that dualism is false and that this "spirit" or "soul" either doesn´t exist or is not at all what you assert it is.

Since we are dispensing links, i strongly recommend this site, it´s almost as if it had been made specially for you:

The Atheist Experience Show Archive

PS: This is the General Discussion section (although it should be off-topic one at this point) so discussion is not limited to axolotls. If axolotls is what you want to discuss you have an entire section dedicated exclusively to that purpose. The rest of us would like to discuss other stuff, it seems.
 
I have to go get work done. I will be back.
Heart--not the blood pump. Your being. You. Not the fingers that type your words. Not the emotions that are in those words that you type. Your being. You probably heard the term "Born Again". What does that mean? It means the renewing of your Spirit. The Spirit is made 'alive' by accepting the Truth. The Cross. Before a person is Born Again, they are blind and can't see the Truth. Their Spirit is dead. They govern with their Soul (mind and emotions). That is why I am being persecuted (lack of a better term) from the front of atheism. Can't see the Truth. I will help guide you to that Truth. You would be great to have in the Kingdom. Someone with your gifts and your passion of evolution, to guide those who can't see. The lost.
Please accept the links as help. It is information that I have used to gather my conclusions from. I do not have time to type all of what everyone is requesting. In fact I do not have time to do what I am doing. I am trying to run 3 businesses. But God keeps directing me to do this typing. Why? He wants a relationship with you. That is what Christianity is....A relationship, not religion. Religion is sucks. Religion is dead. Yes, I hear from him. Anyone can, as long as their Spirit is not dead. That is Born Again.
The 'Love Pump' turned on.
Trace
 
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I fail to understand how anyone could think the Creation Museum is in any way honest or credible when they will literally expel anyone who questions their exhibits or says anything against creation/for evolution.

Also, you're telling someone to see the creation museum of Texas, when even Ken Ham, founder of the original creation museum, said that Carl Baugh's claims and findings were not properly researched. Carl Baugh is apparently such a charlatan that even Ken Ham says he's wrong?

I also want to point out that Carl Baugh has no accredited educational credentials higher than a high school diploma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Baugh said:
Baugh has claimed several college degrees, at one point professing to earning three doctorates, when no evidence exists that he even graduated from high school. All three "doctorates" are from unaccredited "schools." One is an honorary "Doctor of Philosophy in Theology" from the non-accredited California Graduate School of Theology. His claimed 1989 "doctorate" and masters degrees in Archaeology come from the non-accredited Pacific International University, of which Baugh was also the president. His dissertation titled "Academic Justification for Voluntary Inclusion of Scientific Creation in Public Classroom Curricula, Supported by Evidence that Man and Dinosaurs Were Contemporary" was reviewed by Brett Vickers who criticized its "descriptions of his field-work on the Paluxy river 'man-tracks', speculation about Charles Darwin's religious beliefs and phobias, and biblical evidence of Adam's mental excellence." In 2005, Baugh claimed to have completed yet another doctorate in theology from the unaccredited diploma mill known as Louisiana Baptist University.

You know, I'm actually ordained as a Jedi priest from the Universal Life Church Monastery, but as that isn't exactly an accredited organization, that doesn't mean I know all the ways of the Force.

This guy's degrees have the same weight and worth as my ordination as a Jedi.
 
I´m quite familiar with everything you said, i assure you, as i am with what the christian god character is supossed to want from me. I was raised catholic and although i came to the conclussion that believe in deities wasn´t warranted at an early age i´ve taken a lot of pains, time and effort in the past few years to make sure that my possition of desbelief is fully justifiable and airtight and not just some apathetic rebellion. It matters a great deal to me that my believes and possitions are supported by evidence and reason and i didn´t want to risk having an unreasonable possition on the topic of the existence of gods. I´ve researched theistic claims including every single one you´ve made so far, which have been fairly typical, and i´m familiar with the people you have linked to.
Once again you keep making bold assertions that are not evidently true and require evidence to support them yet make no attempt at pressenting such evidence, you just keep making the claims as if making them made them correct.
You claim to know the Truth (capital "t" too, so not just any truth but THE truth) and yet can´t substantiate or demonstrate that what you believe is anything other than make believe. I understand that you sincerily believe what you believe, i don´t doubt that, but that doesn´t mean you are necessarily correct. Incidentally, other people from other religions make the exact same claims of absolute truth even though they are incompatible with yours. I strongly recommend that you acquaint yourself with the philosophical branch of epistomology as well as the problem of hard solipsism. Truth as an absolute is simply not available to you nor anybody else and asserting that you have it is extremely arrogant and missguided.
Please, you are not being persecuted you are merely being asked to validate your claims.You expect your claims to not be challenged and that is not at all reasonable given their extraordinary nature. If you trully had access to the "truth" that should be a trivial task, but strangely you and all the other people who share your beliefs seem totally unable to do so within a rational and reasonable context.

I very strongly recommend the programme i linked to earlier. You can even download it in podcast form and listen to it while you work (if that´s an option) or do something else. It is highly educative and as i said, i kid you not, almost seems made specifically for you.

I would also like to request that we go back to the topic of evolution if there is anything else that anyone would like to say, since that at least is relevant to caudates and their biology. I shouldn´t have addressed your comments on the existence of a deity but i didn´t want to leave your unsupported claims unchallenged (nor delete your posts which is what i will eventually be told i was expected to do). I´m going to get in trouble for this specially since i originally intended to leave a single post for Seth´s benefit, but ended up falling down the rabbit hole :D
 
even Ken Ham, founder of the original creation museum, said that Carl Baugh's claims and findings were not properly researched. Carl Baugh is apparently such a charlatan that even Ken Ham says he's wrong?

That is the funniest thing i´ve heard in a long time xDDDDDD I´m half expecting reality to desintegrate...
 
A couple years ago when i was in grade 9 my science teacher was teaching the Big Bag Theory and evolution. She found it very difficult to teach us how EVERYTHING that we know of today came from one big bang, in assents how something came from nothing. No one knows or may ever know, nor does the Big Ban Theory or evolution even begging to explain, what anything was to the "initial" state of very high energy density. I am a science guy i love science and base everything on facts. IN MY OPTION That nothing that started everything is God. He is the one that allowed this big bang to happen. Now that the big bang happen the earth is in existence but much of the earth was molten. eventually the planet cooled and formed a solid crust, allowing liquid water to exist on the surface, Photosynthetic life and eventually us ( humans). If you really think about this what is the difference between this and the religious creation story? Everything happen because God gave us ability to adapt to new living conditions as the old once became unbearable. I love science but i also am religious. This is the way i look at the world.


I am surprised that you think that evolution and god can go hand in hand. My grandmother wants to believe in evolution too ( well she did not actually say that, but she want to believe in humanoid creatures so it can be assumed ), but when a conversation between her and my brother in-law ( he is the smartest person i know ) he made some excellent points. I do not remember if this was one of them but in the bible it says that Adam ( and eve? ) named the creatures of the earth. If that is true ( and if you believe in the bible it is ), than how could they have named the creatures if it took millions of years for them to evolve?


Since your educational system and your environment have failed you misserably and since you asked for facts i beg of you to please take some time to educate yourself:

TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy

I realize me saying this is hugely unlikely to have any effect, but you have been grossly and disingenuously missinformed. I have no delusions that some thread in a forum is going to magically reverse years of intense indoctrination and that your youth and possition make it highly unlikely that you are going to be able to figure this all out any time soon. Just remember this: Everybody is entitled to their own believes but nobody is entitled to their own facts.
Evolution is an observed fact, as much as gravity, atoms and that some microorganisms cause diseases. Evolutionary theory on the other hand is a scientific theory that explains biological diversity and all underlying aspects of biology and is one of the best supported theories in science, even more so than gravitational theory, atomic theory or the germ theory of disease.


I´ll live you with a quote that sums up the importance of the modern evolutionary synthesis:
"Nothing in Biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" Theodosius Dobzhansky (incidentally, a christian).
As someone who studies Biology i can say this is indeed very much the case.


PS: Ken Hovind is a criminal and an extremely dishonest individual. I have much more to say about him and his equally ignorant and dishonest son, but it wouldn´t be apropriate in this forum because i would be unable to do so without expletives.
Please, please, PLEASE, take a look at the link i provided...


I´m off to weep for the future of humanity...

Ok, i am not against the evolving part necessarily. i am against the theory of evolution.

And i am off to weep too, because you are right, the future doesn't look to good does it?

Nobody has taken prayer out of american schools. You and everybody else are perfectly free to pray if you choose to (I know this and i´m not even from your country). What has been taken out are the unconstitutional, institution enforced prayers precisely because individual religious liberties including the absence of religion must be respected. You live in a secular country and the only way you can have plurality and freedom of and from religion is if state institutions don´t enforce specific religious views. A school cannot make you pray, but as an individual you can choose to do so if that´s what you want.
If you want your freedoms to be respected you have to start by respecting the freedoms of others.


Are you sure no one has taken prayer out of schools? i am not sying it is something that is supposed to be required ( like others seem to have thought that is what i meant ). Lets say i grab the nasty school lunch and find a nice seat by a window. i situate my stuff than go to pray for my meal. that would not slide. i would probably get in trouble. recently there was a article in the paper about how the library in a school had a statue of a Buddha. Some lady got mad because she knew that if it was a statue of Jesus, that it would not be allowed. She eventually won over and they started putting statues of other religions in there. but none the less, a Jesus statue would have never found itself in there had she not argued that if they can have Buddha statues they should be able to have other religious statues. Again, i think people viewed my post wrong, i did not mean force them to pray, i meant you should be able to pray. i most certainly respect other religions, whether i agree with them or not, same with evolution.

... No offense or anything, I really don't want to fuel this fight, but plenty of the posts on this thread have offered proof. If you ask me, this is the most ignorant post on this idiotic thread. I suppose you just haven't accepted any of this as proof until now. I have NOTHING against religion, but I honestly believe that intelligent design is bullcrap. While there are certainly things that science hasn't been able to prove yet (ex. the Big Bang theory), evolution is backed by atleast 95% of the world's scientists. Would you call those men and women liars? Look, I'm not trying to convert anyone here, but if you educate yourself on the subject, you'll see how much sense it makes. That's why I believe in evolution. It isn't a sin or anything. I understand you believe in Christianity just as much as any atheist believes in evolution.

I'm sure you think I'm nuts for thinking this, but I have just one question that I want you to try and answer. Science can't explain how the universe began yet. Right? The Big Bang Theory states that a tiny, incredibly dense ball of matter exploded into the giant, infinitely expanding universe we know today. To know how this worked, you'd have to study all the complex physics involved. But where did that ball of matter come from? We can't answer that.

My question for you is: Where did God come from? That's my only question. Can you explain that any more than I can explain the Big Bang theory?


You know, things are always changing in science, so called "facts" are suddenly disproven. Just because 95% of scientists believe in evolution doesn't mean it is true. Sometimes almost all scientists believe something, and then it is found to be wrong.


Thank you.


People in this country think that if they are not able to have their personal beliefs be front, center, and forced onto everyone else, then their rights are being threatened. Just because a teacher isn't allowed to make their students participate in a Christian prayer doesn't mean that students aren't allowed to pray or observe their own religions in schools. It just means that people aren't forced or obliged to participate or be subjected to religious beliefs they don't share.

Of course our country still has "In God we trust" on the money (unconstitutional) and "under God" in the pledge (also unconstitutional).

There are states where you can be fired for being an atheist. Some states have it law that an atheist cannot hold public office. Adoption agencies can deny you the ability of adopting a child because you're an atheist. There are three times more churches than schools in this country. You've never had a president who wasn't Christian. A public official being openly atheist is a big deal here and people actually question their ability to lead.

Please do not act like the religious freedoms of Christians is in any way threatened. They're not, and acting like they are when all you're complaining about is people refusing to let you stand on THEIR rights is just ignorant and entitled.


I never said that i wanted them to "force" people in school to pray, i said they should be able to if they want too.


Then did it ever occur to you that perhaps certain other things you've been hearing since you were a child might also be incredibly incorrect??? Did you ever think to investigate such things for yourself?????




Oh. Come. On!

Prayer was never part of a school, and I ask you to show me where in the constitution structured Christian prayer is called for. You should probably know, as a Christian, that the 10 Commandments are laws, and in the US, the Supreme Court is the highest court of the land. You should also know that the government is FORBIDDEN by the constitution from creating, establishing, or supporting a religion over others. That is why the commandments were removed from the SCOTUS. Not because of some war on the poor little Christians who comprise maybe 70-75% of this country. And for the love of everything you don't know, this country was NOT founded on Christian anything.

Believe it or not, this IS a free country, and you DO have freedom of religion. As long as you're not breaking any laws, hurting others, or being a menace to society, you are FREE to do whatever you like and you are FREE to believe, establish, and practice any faith you choose.

I never said it was called for!!! i said you should have the right to pray in school, like you are supposed to! I never said it was founded on Christianity? I said that the pilgrims came from Europe so that they could have free religion, among a few other things. You guys are assuming that is what i mean, but it is not.



Ok, for goodness sake, lets stop this argument before it gets worse that it already has! Seriously, we should just stop, this is not going anywhere and wont end well the way we are going. I don't want to make enemies, though i think i already have, but the further we go into this the worse it is going to get. I don't want to be enemies, but i think it its too late, but if not, guys, i am sorry we ever started. I am sorry that i have just made it worse. I am sorry that we disagree, but i think it is good, it makes the world the place it is, it drives us to find answers. So guys, can we all just forget it, or at least stop here? -Seth
 
Seth, as a non religious person that know's many other non religious people, I think it's safe to say most of us don't care enough to hate someone over this. I can't say no enemies were made or not, but I highly doubt it.

Anyway, stop responding to every single post, responding and continuing to argue while saying "I don't want to argue, I'm sorry" says otherwise.
 
I do not remember if this was one of them but in the bible it says that Adam ( and eve? ) named the creatures of the earth. If that is true ( and if you believe in the bible it is ), than how could they have named the creatures if it took millions of years for them to evolve?

Alright, I agree with you that we should end this thread, but this is the last thing I wanted to comment on. I really don't get how Adam and Eve could have named every animal in the world, seeing as thousands of new species are discovered each year. Many remain unnamed to this day. Sorry, no offense to your brother in-law. Anyways, I'm going to attempt to stop posting on this thread. Seth, I hope you take the time at some point to go over evolution and see what we're talking about here. There really is an astounding amount of evidence towards it.

No hard feelings,
Daniel
 
:D
Seth, as a non religious person that know's many other non religious people, I think it's safe to say most of us don't care enough to hate someone over this. I can't say no enemies were made or not, but I highly doubt it.

Anyway, stop responding to every single post, responding and continuing to argue while saying "I don't want to argue, I'm sorry" says otherwise.


I hope you are right. I hope no one is that upset. i keep arguing because people keep saying things that i cant seem to leave alone! lol, sorry, this seriously will be my last post.....unless the topic turns again. ;).


Alright, I agree with you that we should end this thread, but this is the last thing I wanted to comment on. I really don't get how Adam and Eve could have named every animal in the world, seeing as thousands of new species are discovered each year. Many remain unnamed to this day. Sorry, no offense to your brother in-law. Anyways, I'm going to attempt to stop posting on this thread. Seth, I hope you take the time at some point to go over evolution and see what we're talking about here. There really is an astounding amount of evidence towards it.

No hard feelings,
Daniel

I have to admit, i don't know how they could have named them all. But just because there are nameless animals doesn't mean that they have not been named in the past. I can just see them......"there is giant grey-ish thing number one......and there is orange and black striped thingy-ma-jig number 48"......:p

I am glad there are no hard feelings, thanks Daniel. That is my middle name actually :D. -Seth
 
Are you sure no one has taken prayer out of schools? i am not sying it is something that is supposed to be required ( like others seem to have thought that is what i meant ). Lets say i grab the nasty school lunch and find a nice seat by a window. i situate my stuff than go to pray for my meal. that would not slide. i would probably get in trouble.

Seth,

From your comments, I've got the vibe that you're home-schooled? Maybe I'm wrong.

In any case, how much public school experience do you have? Unless someone starts talking in tongues, and a teacher assumes they are having a seizure, do you really think the teachers are gestapo agents on the look out for a Christian mid-prayer in the lunch room?
 
I am surprised that you think that evolution and god can go hand in hand. My grandmother wants to believe in evolution too ( well she did not actually say that, but she want to believe in humanoid creatures so it can be assumed ), but when a conversation between her and my brother in-law ( he is the smartest person i know ) he made some excellent points. I do not remember if this was one of them but in the bible it says that Adam ( and eve? ) named the creatures of the earth. If that is true ( and if you believe in the bible it is ), than how could they have named the creatures if it took millions of years for them to evolve?
People certainly find ways to rationalize deities while still accepting evolutionary theory. I´m not saying i agree, i´m saying it definitely happens.
The answer is simple Seth: it´s not true. Adam and Eve never existed.
The one thing i´ll give young earth creationists is that at the very least they have realized that in order to have an internally consistent theology you need to take everything, you can´t pick and choose. The problem being of course that in turn it is the theology which is entirely inconsistent with reality. The bad news (or good, it´s a matter of perspective) for you is that we can conclusively demonstrate that evolution, common descent and that the earth is 4,5 billion years old to an astonishing degree of certainty while at the same time being able to confirm that the human species was never descended from a single pair of magically produced humans. Even obviating all the other lines of evidence, genetics alone is more than sufficient to fully conclude that that never happened.



Ok, i am not against the evolving part necessarily. i am against the theory of evolution.

And i am off to weep too, because you are right, the future doesn't look to good does it?
But Seth, you are against a scientific theory you know absolutely nothing about. You are critisizing something you don´t even begin to understand. The "evolutionary theory" you have been presented with is a bastardized version which bears no resemblance to the actual science. It is a strawman, non-sensical thing that of course nobody in their right mind could possibly believe. The people who have told you these things either have no understanding whatsoever of the actual science themselves, or are intentionally pressenting you with a strawman version because they have a vested interest in making you think that evolutionary theory is this ridiculous thing that even a child could see is non-sense.

It is not what you have been told it is and what you think you are critisizing or opposing is not real, it doesn´t exist.
By the way, what you are aluding to is the famous microevolution yes, macroevolution no paradox. It´s total non-sense.


Are you sure no one has taken prayer out of schools? i am not sying it is something that is supposed to be required ( like others seem to have thought that is what i meant ). Lets say i grab the nasty school lunch and find a nice seat by a window. i situate my stuff than go to pray for my meal. that would not slide. i would probably get in trouble. recently there was a article in the paper about how the library in a school had a statue of a Buddha. Some lady got mad because she knew that if it was a statue of Jesus, that it would not be allowed. She eventually won over and they started putting statues of other religions in there. but none the less, a Jesus statue would have never found itself in there had she not argued that if they can have Buddha statues they should be able to have other religious statues. Again, i think people viewed my post wrong, i did not mean force them to pray, i meant you should be able to pray. i most certainly respect other religions, whether i agree with them or not, same with evolution.

Yes, i´m sure. You are perfectly free to pray before your meal if you want. Nobody, least of all the school can prevent you from doing so. It´s unconstitutional.
The Buddha statue did not belong in school property. That lady was right to point it out. Nobody has claimed that christians are the only religious group to disregard the constitution. They are, however, the group that does it most frequently by far. I could link you to dozens of cases.
I´ll say, though, that in the case of Buddha i wouldn´t be surprised if people didn´t even realize it was a religious symbol...i know people who think it´s just a quaint oriental decoration, i kid you not...
Regardless, no religious symbol should be desplayed in a public school in your country be it a christian, a buddhist or a hindu symbol.

You know, things are always changing in science, so called "facts" are suddenly disproven. Just because 95% of scientists believe in evolution doesn't mean it is true. Sometimes almost all scientists believe something, and then it is found to be wrong.

Yes, we acquire more data, more knowledge and that modifies our understanding of reality. It´s called progress, it´s a fantastic thing. It´s one of the strengths of science, it´s not static, it´s dinamic. It´s the reason why we no longer think the earth is the center of the solar system and we have cars and electricity and medicins....it´s because we acquire new knowledge and we incorporate it to our body of understanding, which often requires us to change our minds about things. I know you have been condicioned to perceive this as a weakness, but the entirity of the civilization you live in attest to it being a very powerful thing.
Facts are not suddenly disproven. Facts are facts. I think you are not at all clear on what a "fact" means in science. What changes are interpretations of the observed data, hypothesis, because new information can modify the conclussion one arrives to. By the way this happens all the time outside of a scientific context too, it probably happens to you on a daily basis.

You are right, just because it is almost universally accepted within the relevant fields of science it doesn´t mean evolution is correct. It is correct on its own merits, not because it´s popular. The universal acceptance is a consequence of how extremely well supported it is, not the other way around. You have no idea how extraordinarily massive the body of evidence within biology is...but i hope you get to peak some day and be amazed.
 
In Aztec and Toltec mythology, Xolotl ("The Animal", Lord of the Evening Star, Lord of the Underworld) was the god of lightning and a psychopomp, which is to say that he was the one who aided the dead on their journey to Mictlan, the afterlife.....The axolotl, a type of salamander native to Mexico, is not directly named after the god......The irony
 
I
Are you sure no one has taken prayer out of schools? i am not sying it is something that is supposed to be required ( like others seem to have thought that is what i meant ). Lets say i grab the nasty school lunch and find a nice seat by a window. i situate my stuff than go to pray for my meal. that would not slide. i would probably get in trouble.


That is absolutely untrue.

You seriously have never been to a public school if that's what you think. Not only can kids freely pray over their meals, they are given a "moment of silence" after the pledge of allegiance every morning to pray if they wish, not to mention annual "flag pole" ceremonies in which they kids gather around the flag pole and share a group (Christian) prayer, not to mention several religiously themed clubs AND before/after school Bible studies. Schools even allow Muslim children to be excused from class so they can do their daily prayers.

Like seriously? I get that you honestly believe what you do, but you're defending it with nothing but hear-say that has been fed to you by the people around you.

And with this and the theory of evolution, it's clearly evident to everyone that not only are you extremely uneducated about the subject, but you aren't even educated enough to fully grasp how uneducated you are about the theory. That's not meant as an insult. You genuinely don't know enough about the theory of evolution to even try and have a valid criticism of it. You don't understand the concept at all, so how could you possibly argue that it isn't valid?

And again, I'm really not trying to be mean or anything. Heck, I was homeschooled for 7 years and had no idea about public schools until middle school, and I was taught evolution was a lie and I didn't believe in it until college, so I seriously know where you're coming from and what you're feeling because I had the exact same convictions, but honestly you should at least fully understand the concepts of the theory you're trying to argue against.

Saying evolution isn't true when you don't even understand it is like trying to say one political party in another country is better than another one, when you have no idea about the politics or parties of that country. You can't do it. You don't know enough about it to have a valid opinion or argument.
 
After recently posting a few threads asking for advice regarding my axolotls and receiving no feedback, I decided to check the status of this thread....I figured that this conversation is still consuming people's energies.

Can anyone explain to me why this thread has not been flagged or dealt with by moderators? My understanding is that moderators are here to intervene when topics deviate to this extent....??? (If not, could we make special topic areas for religion, politics, etc so this is not what members/guests see when they are seeking advice/assistance in caring for their caudates? Please excuse my sarcasm...)

I am also a little embarrassed that those who have recently joined the forum are witnessing this right off the bat. If this had been my first impression, I would not have stuck around and would have missed out on a lot of very useful information.
 
Nobody is obligated to participate only in the threads that you prefer. Also, there are thousands and thousands of axolotls threads, very few of which offer anything new, but this is the first time i´ve seen a thread like this, so i plan to enjoy it while it lasts.

Moderators are not here necessarily to prevent threads from deviating from the original topic. That can happen and it does, it´s ok so long as the deviation sparks conversation and the share of information. What we are supossed to prevent are flame wars which was the expected outcome of this thread from the very moment it turned to evolution denialism, but that hasn´t happened. This thread has remained largely civilized. It should also be noted that discussions about evolution are not at all outside of the scope of this forum, we even have a section for it since after all this is a forum discussing living organisms. What´s definitely outside the scope of the forums is discussion about religion, but we have an off-topic section (where i´m moving this thread right away) where anything goes and i see no reason why a topic should be banned if the participants manage to be civil.

Why would you be embarrashed? First of all, it´s not like we are linking new members directly to this thread as an obligatory read. People are free to choose which threads to pay attention to and which to ignore. Quite frankly if all there was in these forums were axolotl threads me and many others would have never joined because we find them tediously inane. We don´t go around trying to prevent people from posting or participating in threads we have zero interest in or we are embarrashed by (which happens frequently if you must know but i bet you don´t hear about it). Thankfully there is a plurality of tastes, opinions, points of view and yes, sections, in this site so we can all enjoy a variety of topics to discuss. If one single thread outside of your section of choice is enough to make you dish the wealth of information contained in the forums i don´t know what to tell you.
 
Sharon, I was going to essentially point out what Azhael has - that the thread's been moved to a more appropriate area of the forum - but he beat me to it. And explained it far better. I'll add that, at a brief glance, there's plenty of regulars from the Axolotl sub forums that are not posting in here, so it's probably not the case that it's absorbing everyone's attention.

It's also worth noting that the "Off Topic" subform has, at this time, 13 viewing, meanwhile the Axolotl sub forums break down as follows: 48, 12, 8, 47, and 22. I *could* take screenshots, but I don't think it's necessary.

I'm frequently linking to this thread from the first page because it is currently popular, what with the back-and-forth debate, but I'd imagine new members are more likely to head to the introduction section, and then, unless they have other caudates, the axolotl subforum, which generally has the most traffic.

I'm also enjoying the debate, in part because it's nice to reaffirm my own understanding of evolution, but also because I haven't seen the evolution-creationism debate in a few years. It *is* a bit embarrassing because I've seen its variations in the past, and it's a wonder to be reminded how this never seems to move on, but I'm finding it interesting nonetheless. And a lot more civil than some of the mudslinging I've seen elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurred to me that, in my anecdotal experience, forums are generally quieter over the weekend anyway. And this is compounded by the run-up to Christmas; people could be at parties, with family, or on the road travelling for holidays or to spend the festive season with relatives. Other likely reasons why the forums may seem quieter than usual.
 
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I am finding this rather amusing!

What started out as a very funny baked bean advert with a giant axolotl-type monster on the moon has been hijacked into a religion vs evolution vs politics argument.

I am not going to enter into the argument, but I will continue reading...
 
Sharon, I was going to essentially point out what Azhael has - that the thread's been moved to a more appropriate area of the forum - but he beat me to it. And explained it far better. I'll add that, at a brief glance, there's plenty of regulars from the Axolotl sub forums that are not posting in here, so it's probably not the case that it's absorbing everyone's attention.

It's also worth noting that the "Off Topic" subform has, at this time, 13 viewing, meanwhile the Axolotl sub forums break down as follows: 48, 12, 8, 47, and 22. I *could* take screenshots, but I don't think it's necessary.

I'm frequently linking to this thread from the first page because it is currently popular, what with the back-and-forth debate, but I'd imagine new members are more likely to head to the introduction section, and then, unless they have other caudates, the axolotl subforum, which generally has the most traffic.

I'm also enjoying the debate, in part because it's nice to reaffirm my own understanding of evolution, but also because I haven't seen the evolution-creationism debate in a few years. It *is* a bit embarrassing because I've seen its variations in the past, and it's a wonder to be reminded how this never seems to move on, but I'm finding it interesting nonetheless. And a lot more civil than some of the mudslinging I've seen elsewhere.

Edit: It just occurred to me that, in my anecdotal experience, forums are generally quieter over the weekend anyway. And this is compounded by the run-up to Christmas; people could be at parties, with family, or on the road travelling for holidays or to spend the festive season with relatives. Other likely reasons why the forums may seem quieter than usual.

Empirical win!
 
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