Question: Cycling: Completely new vs. old tank water

Are planaria a problem or are they ok? That site seemed to indicate that they are harmless. It also says to get rid of them, to minimize food waste by feeding axolotl only when necessary and promptly cleaning up unused food waste. I feed him once every two days instead of daily, and always clean the waste, but the planaria are still there. Will my tank be all right?

Also, I am wondering if anyone has used Ammo Lock with axolotl and if this is an okay product to use? Can it be used in addition to dechlorinator/water conditioner? and the directions imply to use it directly in the tank? anyone have any experience with this product and whether it is okay to use or not?
 
Hi Mzcmn,

I would not recommend using Ammo Lock. Simply on the basis that you want to treat any underlying condition rather than mask it. The best and only way to maintain your water parameters to an optimum is to do frequent tests with a kit to assess your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels and perform 20% water changes regularly as well as siphoning out visible solid wastes at the bottom of the tank. You want to avoid pouring additional unnecessary chemicals into the water.

Ammo Lock is merely using a chemical to neutralise ammonia in the water, but does not effectively remove presence of visible wastes as well as other nitrogenous wastes such as nitrates in the water that could creep up and be detrimental to your axolotls, if you choose to take the 'easy' way out by adding chemicals instead of water changes.

Planaria are flatworms of the biological family Planariidae, belonging to the order Seriata. They eat living or dead small animals that they suck with their muscular mouth. As such, they have been implicated in skin slime problems with marine fish. In theory, i would speculate that they may have an effect on axolotls, if present in large enough numbers. Planarian worms can also get into the gills and cause irritation. This has been documented in axolotls. It leads to axolotls becoming jumpy and starting to scratch against itself.

They normally appear when:
1. An aquarist has overfed his/her axolotls.
2. The aquarium gravel is not siphoned regularly.
3. Aquarium ammonia levels have risen.

If present in small numbers, just ensuring the water quality is good by eliminating the abovementioned 3 points will suffice. However, if present in large numbers, you may like to try the following:

a) Sometimes removing the axolotls (how about a short vacation in the fridge?) and raising the tank temperature, for 24 hours, to 35 C can rid a tank of Planaria. Useful method if you have an aquarium heater. REMEMBER TO REMOVE YOUR AXIES BEFOREHAND!! Also remember to let the tank cool down to the ideal temperature before reintroducing your axolotls again.

b) Natural predators may help. Again, you might like to send your axolotls on a temporary vacation in the fridge before doing this. Quarantine any new stock for at least 1 month (30 days) before attempting this. Apple Snails, Hong Kong Plecs. (coldwater), Whiptail Catfish, and any Limnivorous Catfish (Mud-eaters, e.g. Twig Catfish and Bubble-nesting Catfish, who are constantly searching throughout the tank for vegetable matter, detritus, micro-organisms and tiny crustaceans), are among the species that will (usually if left unfed for a few days) eat away at Planaria on a long term basis. In the short term Betta and Pelvicachromis (Kribs.) species will eat small amounts of Planaria.

Some references suggest using chemicals to rid the planaria. I personally do not advocate the use of chemicals because their efficacy is not guaranteed, it causes long term changes in your tank parameters and can be harmful to your axolotls.

Another commonly suggested solution in references is to strip the tank down, and give a thorough scrub and clean with boiling water, including changing the filter media. I personally also do not advocate this method. Firstly, there is no guarantee that planaria would not re-establish itself after the strip down, secondly, by doing so, you would kill off the beneficial and desirable bioslime (good nitrifying bacteria). You would thus have to cycle the tank all over again.

Hope this is of some use to you.

Cheers.
 
I am having trouble identifying the amount of ammonia.. All tests have resulted in a .25 amount of ammonia, and at someone's recommendation, I tested the dechlorinated water before adding to tank, and it too, measured .25 apparently because of the presence of chloramines in the tap water, even though the water conditioner is supposed to break the chloramine bond.

As far as food waste goes, I'd be pressed to ever see him leave anything behind for me to remove!
 
mzcmn said:
I am having trouble identifying the amount of ammonia.. All tests have resulted in a .25 amount of ammonia, and at someone's recommendation, I tested the dechlorinated water before adding to tank, and it too, measured .25 apparently because of the presence of chloramines in the tap water, even though the water conditioner is supposed to break the chloramine bond.

As far as food waste goes, I'd be pressed to ever see him leave anything behind for me to remove!
Click to expand...

The water conditioner 'locks' the chloromine rendering it harmless to the axolotls. It is still detectable however to the Ammonia test. When this water is added to a fully cycled tank, the bacterias will break it down like any other ammonia waste and then it will be gone.

Do you check under ornaments, substrate, rock, logs, etc for left over food? A lot of muck can hide under these ornaments (gravel is the worst for accumulating muck) and the only way to find it is to move the objects.

In reading your other posts, you feed bloodworm and brineshrimp? These are very messy foods and not easy to remove from a tank once dispersed in the water.

Have you considered earthworm? Much easier to spot and remove and is a nutritionally complete diet.

What sort of filter are you using? Have you checked to see if it is clogged?
 
I don't yet have much of anything except a flower pot and a couple of stones. Uh... gee, the stones just raised a question--can a particular type of stone cause any water quality problems? These were just a couple of basic stones that I had laying around the house as paperweights. Maybe I should remove them?

But no, I really have no substrate yet.

How often should I clean tank and change water?
 
A bare-bottomed tank facilitates cleaning so its really quite fine as well. If you decide to use substrate, sand will be the best choice. I suppose the benefit of having sand substrate is it allows you to plant some types of aquatic plants, visually more appealing and some studies have suggested that axolotls feel more 'secured' if their feet have something to hold on to.

As for the stones, there are three critical factors to consider if you are using them. Firstly, the size of the stones are important. They should not be small enough that the axolotl can ingest (and therefore cause impaction). However, a lot of people also do not realise that axolotls have a much larger gape than anticipated, therefore a big stone to you might still be swallowed by an axolotl. Personally, i would not risk putting in any stones that is half the size of the axolotl.

The next thing to consider is whether there are residues of chemicals or detergent present on those stones. If you have used them as a paperweight before, there might be traces of white-out, glue, ink etc. that obviously can contaminate the water if not removed beforehand. Similarly, if you took the stones from lets say an outdoor pond, there is a risk of introduction of parasites and harmful microbes if not well scrubbed and cleaned beforehand. (Such as leaving them in a bowl of boiling water for a couple of minutes to sterilize).

Lastly, you have to consider the composition of the stones. Limey type stones can raise the pH, and that goes with any saltwater reef type rocks and stones. Some type of 'stones' can also dissolve/disintegrate slowly over time. You want to avoid such stones. Granite type rocks are much more resistant and don't affect the water chemistry.

How often you clean your tank and change the water depends on the size of your tank, the number of axolotls, the type of filter, how much you feed them etc.

To simplify, i would suggest siphoning out all uneaten food, solid visible wastes everyday. Aim to test your water chemistry every weekend. Change your tank water about every 2 weeks in general, performing a 20% water change each time. You would have a better idea of how often to change the water by monitoring the water chemistry. It may vary somewhat from the suggestions i gave.
 
Re: Cycling: Compl... New Problem!

New problem.... it appears there is a small presence of white stuff on him at several locations. Also, there are small little flakes of white which may be the planara worms hanging out on him.. a few on the gills and one on the head... or they may be the fungus. I have to get a better view.

This site has good information:

http://axolotl.org/health.htm

However, how do I tell the difference between Saprolegnia and Columnarias?

And if it is Saprolegnia, axolotl.org offers the following solution:

"Saprolegnia, the most common sort of true fungus found in freshwater, can be treated by similar measures as Columnaris and this fungus is only rarely fatal, if treated early. If your tap water has chloramine, this can be used as a treatment for fungal problems."

I'm confused, I thought chloramine was very poisonous to axolotls...
 
Hi mzcmn,

I think it would be great if you could post some photos of the white flecks you see on your axolotl. It would give a clearer picture.

It is very risky to jump to conclusions or make assumptions in the diagnosis, because many disease processes can look very similar. The treatment methods may also differ for the varying causes and if a wrong treatment is used, it creates undue stress and may in fact be counter productive.

I am not assuming that your axolotl currently has fungus. But to answer the question on how to differentiate the fungal type causing a mycosis, the only way is to bring it to a vet, who would then obtain a sample, such as via a swab of the affected tissue and then look at it under a microscope as well as culture/plate the sample with a specialised culture media (perhaps sauboraud's agar).

It is not advisable to treat your axolotl with over the aquarium shop counter drugs. It is also better off not attempting a home remedy if you are not familiar with the procedures. Sometimes references may promote use of certain medications but it may not be the safest drug to use. With all treatments, everything has to be done accurately, such as titrating the right concentration or dosage.

I would relate the use of chloramine therapy as mastering fire. It is a good servant but a bad master. If you know what you are doing, it can be therapeutic, but if you are not familiar and make shoddy attempts, it can be deterimental. Chloramine is toxic to both fungus and axolotl, its the concentration present that decides if it assists in healing or killing the axolotl.
 
Thanks darkmaverick. My friend took some pictures on cell phone and hopefully he can send them to me within the day to post. It looks like patches of fuzzy white stuff (fungus?) on parts of his body and head, and the small strips on his gills look just like the white worm things on the side of the glass and I think i even saw one moving but it's hard exactly to tell, axol don't stay still too long with a light shining on him (it's nighttime now)....
 
Sorry I didn't get the pictures up. Technological barriers.

5 days ago, I took out the stones, cleaned the tank out, changed 20% water and white stuff disappeared pretty much immediately. I suspect the stones were leaving something behind, because they left a white residue on the metal drain plug in the sink where I left them, after several rinses of washing my hands.

As precaution, I still took axolotl to fridge for 3 days (all I had before leaving for 10 days, leaving Spotty Axol under friend's care). I used the opportunity to crank the heat in bedroom where tank is to hopefully diminish planaria population, and also crank the current on the air stone to maximize oxygenation.

Axol is in small tank on floor in bedroom at 50 degrees f. warming, and heat in bedroom is off and tank there is at 56 degrees. I'm waiting for tank to cool to meet axol's water temp before reintroducing to tank, but it seems there are ammonia issues and I am leaving on a plane tomorrow at 6 a.m.

For the first time, I am reading .5 to 1 on ammonia level, while all along before I started the filter several weeks ago and even for the first few weeks until now, it always read .25.

No2 is still 0 and no3 still 20 or less, as always has been.

I have a MarineLand Penguin BioWheel filter, and I changed the filter also about a week ago (I guess five days) when I changed the water and removed the stones--it had been in for one and a half weeks (they last for 2-4), but I removed it on the precaution that perhaps it was clogged (it did have a lot of brown muck on it) and contributing to the white fungus-like problem.

I speculate that because I increased the temperature of the tank for 24+ hours to kill the planaria that the increase temp. contributed to increase ammonia? Or did changing the filter cause an ammonia spike (although I thought the Bio Wheel filter didn't affect the bacterial population because of its wheel of bacterial growth which is always there and separate from the filter)? Or am I seeing a natural spike in ammonia because of the tank establishing its cycle (the filter was introduced about two weeks ago)?

Whatever the cause, the ammonia in my tank is higher than it's ever been and I have to reintroduce axol to tank because in 24 hours I fly away for 10 days and my friend is taking care of it.

Oh also, in the 3 days axol was in fridge, I did a 20% water change of the big tank 3 times. Perhaps I changed the water too much, depleting the ammonia-eating bacteria? Another factor is that I removed the smaller tank which had been submerged within the larger tank (it was trapping waste plus I needed it to put him in the fridge), and also removed the stones and flower pot--leaving little surface area except the glass tank, filter and air stone--possibly leaving less surface area for bacteria to colonize?

I guess the emergency question now is: what do I do to maximize the tank's livability for the next 10 days while I will not be here? Do I do an additional 20% water change this morning or not? Will a water change help or not? I have to put him in the big tank soon. My friend just does not know all the peculiarities of this animal and having her take care of it on a daily basis out of the fridge is a bit beyond what I can expect of her.

I am thinking of directing her to feed him very minimally. Like once every three days or so, to reduce waste from excretion and /or food; and just the floating sticks.

Should I put him in the big tank sooner so I can see how he does for a half a day? or later to give a longer duration for levels to become more favorable?

Is there anything I can do immediately to reduce tha ammonia? is there anything i can instruct its caretaker for the next 10 days to do that will make my axol living with higher ammonia more tolerable?

I checked the levels inthe small tank where it is now, and it is the usual--.25, not .5 or 1.

HELP!
 
Hi,

What with ammonia levels, dodgy rocks, and planaria, it sounds like your tank is a bit of a mess. :eek: I don't mean that derogatorily but rather as a start to the suggestion that it might be better not to put your axolotl into that tank at all if it is going to be relatively unattended for 10 days. Perhaps you could leave the axolotl in the fridge and instruct your friend to change the water in the fridge container each day? The aquarium could continue cycling in the meantime and you can see what you've got when you return.

Also, floating sticks are not really appropriate foods for axolotls as they are bottom feeders, but I would say that is rather a secondary issue at this point.

-Eva
 
I would have to agree with Eva. Putting your axie back into the tank right now would not be good and chances of survival will be slim. It seems it would be much easier for your friend to change tub water in the fridge than to have to do daily 20-30% changes on the tank. Keep the axie fridged and leave the tank alone while you are gone. It will be better for the axie and will give your tank more time to get further along in the cycling process.
 
I just got back from Florida, and did what you recommended--put the Axolotl in the fridge and had friend do daily water changes. It has been 10 days and now I am back, and the tank which has been cycling with the filter on while ax has been in fridge, still reads 1.0 for ammonia level! How long is it going to take for the bacteria to start gobbling up all the ammonia? Is there anything I can do to move this process along? Should I do daily 10-20% water changes or something to bring the ammonia levels down? I've had the filter in for well over a month now.... I'd really like to get Axie back into his home. The levels had been fine for a few weeks until the ammonia spiked up right before I left for my vacation, and they haven't gone down since...

Here are the levels in the tank:

GH 60, KH 0, pH 6, NO2 0, NO3 0, Amm 1.0
 
What kind of ammonia test kit do you use, and how old is it? I'm wondering if there could be an error in the reading. If you have a good local fish shop, take a sample in for them to check.

If the reading is true, you could do a couple of partial change, but not every day. Better to let the bacteria get going and do the job.

What is in the tank that could be generating the ammonia? No other axies, right? Crud under an undergravel filter, or under pebbles? Other living things?
 
Nobody's in the tank right now. Axol in the fridge (the topic of many a conservations as my friends comment that they never know what will be staring at them when they open the fridge door). The tank is clean of debris, and even the cloudiness that was there several weeks ago is gone. Not much in there except for a tank flower pot decoration, air stone, a floating turtle pad and suspended plastic tupperware container that help break the flow of the current, and a few large plastic stones. Maybe I do not have enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize?
 
With that ammonia reading and the amount of time that has passed, you should certainly be showing some nitrite (and maybe even nitrate?) by now. If you have a filter running and, well, anything in the tank at all - bacteria will even settle on the glass - you should be showing some results of their existence; i.e., a nitrite reading. I cannot understand why the cycle isn't starting. So my first thought was like Jen's - maybe the test kit is defective. Jen is, of course, right on - take a sample to a pet shop and let them test it for you (they do it for free).

And by the way, wait till your friends open the fridge and see wriggling packets of worms, crickets, and grubs staring back at 'em hehehe

-Eva
 
G'day,

Seems like you're having a world of complications with your tank, but rest assured that everything will get back on track because you are taking all the necessary precautions.

With everything that has been said and you introducing a new bio-wheel filter, I don't really know how long you have been cycling your tank. However, I'm sure you are aware (from the wisdom of others) that the nitrification cycle can range any where between 3 weeks to 3 months. It's a waiting game, so there is no rush. There is also no need to add any chemicals to remove the ammonia, as it will be required to complete the cycle. On a positive note, ammonia level of 1 ppm isn't anything to be overly worried about. But that's only if your axolotl isn't in the tank, which is the case here. In fact, 1ppm and 0ppm for both NO2 and NO3 most likely indicates that your tank hasn't established the necessary nitrifying bacteria to kick-start the cycle.

mzcmn said:
I used the opportunity to crank the heat in bedroom where tank is to hopefully diminish planaria population
Click to expand...

This method isn't going to eradicate the planaria. Planaria are a type of flatworm, and they belong to the phylum Platyhelminthes. They are not parasitic because they exisit only as microscopic eggs (outside an axolotl) during their life-cycle. Planarians are essentially scavengers and, therefore, will only consume decomposing matter.

Raising the temperature of the tank isn't going to work unless the water is literally boiling. Planaria also have the ability of regeneration. For instance, you could sever the head of planaria, and they will simply grow another body. It does surprise me, though, that you didn't have a significant increase in nitrifying bacteria. Although you can't measure this with any rudimentary test kit, studies have shown that the rate of nitrification is directly proportional to temperature, i.e. nitrification increases with increasing temperature (it will plateau at some point, though).

Having said that, I believe the best method for you to remove planaria is to take some string and wrap it around a cheese-cloth that contains a small piece of chicken liver. Manipulate the string so you can dangle it over the edge of the tank. Because planaria have sensitive chemicals senses, they should be able to detect the bait and be drawn towards it. To speed up the process, you could cover your tank with a black cloth/sheet to create the illusion of night, as planaria are nocturnal creatures. After some time, you will have attracted the planaria to the bait, in which case, you'll have get a brine-shrimp net to collect the bait before removing it from the water. Take the brine-shrimp net and its contents to bucket that has been pre-filled with boiling water, and immerse the lot into the boiling water.

mzcmn said:
GH 60, KH 0, pH 6, NO2 0, NO3 0, Amm 1.0
Click to expand...

Most ammonia test kits will detect both ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+). Given that your pH is 6, I would be more inclined to think that you are detecting NH4+. This is the less toxic form of the two molecules. At lower pH (i.e. below 7), ammonia will bind with the available hydrogen ion (H+) that is present in acidic water, to form ammonium.

If I were you, I'd just let the tank cycle with/without the axolotl. Everything should work out for the best. Good luck! ;)

Jay.
 
Hi all,

I thought i shall put in my 2 cents about planaria eradication. Despite my earlier post on some strategies to eliminate planaria, planaria is still essentially quite a bothersome thing to eliminate completely. The battle against planaria may be ultimately a fine balancing act.

However, as with all microbes and simpler life forms, they all have specific environmental conditions they fluorish in and conditions in which they fail to thrive. This includes temperature of the tank water. However, as Planariidaea consists of many species. it depends on which species we are targeting.

Some Planaria species do not tolerate high temperatures. They can be eradicated by increasing for several days water temperature to 35 degree celsius. This has been documented in several literature. This method however will not help dispose of Planaria maculata (a tropical species) whose color varies from gray-white to yellowish-grey. It is noteworthy that we are rasing the water temperature (such as through the use of a water heater) rather than raising the room ambient temperature.

The strategy to use a bait is a fantastic one and is definitely worth recommending. An alternative method is as follows. Scraped beef is put into a gauze sac and hung among plants and close to the gravel. Light should be switched off. The gauze sac will attract Planaria that will gather on it in a few hours. The sac is removed from the aquarium (hold the net under the sac to prevent Planaria falling back into the aquarium) and put into boiling water. Repeat this for several evenings to ensure that young planaria that have hatched from eggs are eradicated.

Cheers

Some weblink References:

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2004-02/1075999541.Gb.r.html

http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/abstract/35/5/277

http://jgp.rupress.org/cgi/reprint/9/4/503.pdf

http://www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/pub/diag?c=v&id=64
 
Hey folks, thanks for your help. How often and how much should I do water changes until the tank is completely cycled? Right now, ax is stil in fridge so that's not a factor.

I did a perfunctory 25% water change when I got back from my Florida vacation two days ago. The ammonia does seem to have come down a little bit, somewhere between .5 and 1. Should I be doing water changes daily, every two days or not at all? Again, axol not in tank right now. I am just curious if frequent water changes will help or harm the process, because as well as removing ammonia I am likely also removing beneficial bacteria that eats the ammonia that could be present trying to establish itself.

I am using the Red Sea Ammonia Fresh Test kit. It's not a good test. The directions are horrible. It claims to give "precise" measurements of NH3 and NH4, but the directions only refer to "toxic ammonia" levels and doesn't specify to whether it is NH3 or NH4, or a combination of the both put together. The directions are confusing/unclear and I assume, since the color card says NH3/NH4 ppm that it is just testing a total amount of both combined. They could have explained things much better. Don't buy this kit.

At any rate, it probably works because the levels show differently for the conditioned water pre-tank than the water in the tank, and the water in the tank is apparently starting to show slightly lower levels of ammonia.

The kit I use for pH, nitrites, nitrates and water hardness is the API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips and I have no problem with that test. Still showing 0 or close to 0 of both nitrites and nitrates. My tank has been cycling now for four weeks, so maybe I don't have any cause for alarm and need to just wait it out.

I suppose this will give me an opportunity to clean out the planaria further. Can't wait to move Spotty out of the fridge!

Should I do a water change today? daily? weekly? what's the appropriate frequency during cycling? I know if he was in the tank, I would want to do it daily or every two days, but since he's not, I just want to do whatever will help the tank cycle through the fastest.
thnx.
 
Hi mczmn,

Its evident you make a sensible axolotl owner. You are logically evaluating each step you take and each test you do.

There may be two confounders that may be complicating your tests.

Firstly, test strip kits are inaccurate compared to test drops colorimetric solutions. Although costlier, its accuracy alone far outweighs the cons.

Secondly have you tried testing your tap water directly? Presence of chloramines may show up as positive test readings.

Also you are absolutely right that ammonia is needed in some amounts for your tank to cycle. it is a balancing act. You would need to do regular water changes but also leave some for the cycle to establish. If you have sand substrate, presence of plants etc., these would provide the necessary surface area for bacteria to colonise. You can also leave a small bit of lets say axolotl excrement/ a piece of shrimp etc. to provide the ammonia needed.

Cheers
 
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