Another cycling question thread

f your sponges get clogged with dirt and debris, it can greatly reduce the efficiency of your filter, and can also cause the filter to run hotter because the flow is reduced.
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I can imagine that if the filter goes to wamt it can break, and i dont want that. So now i have two diferent answers=)But just a Quick rinse with tank water dont dont sound to damaging though. Now i shall let it be for a while at first, get everything going.

To reduce the waterflow I thought about cover some of the oexhaust with a spoonge piece, so the newts dont get it to current. And maybe the same over intake if that is necessary?..I have read that some does that. But can this method do some damage on my filter?
 
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I wouldn't put an sponges over the intake, it should have a cage over it that should be sufficient to keep them out of the filter if not it's a nice simple replacement part to get a hold of.
Putting anything over the intake (and outlet for that matter) that reduces the amount of water going through your filter whether it's because it's harder to pump it out or harder to suck it in will result in your filter running hotter because it's not getting sufficient flow through it to cool the motor fast enough just like a very dirty filter would do.

Grius you can clean it as often as you want to but from experience you won't need to do so before the 6 month mark and regardless of when and how you do it you will lose some bacteria in the process so will need to monitor your water to make sure it hasn't been thrown back into another cycle.
You can do it every 2 months if you like but that doesn't mean it needs to be done or that it is beneficial ;)

I only do the canister on my heavily populated tropical fish tank every 6 months, not because it's lost flow volume or isn't cleaning the water as well as I'd like but because I know how bad the first stage can get if I leave it much longer. Now I know the members here like to think that axolotls and newts are dirty little critters but seriously they have NOTHING of a fully stocked tropical fish tank even with a proper clean every week, these things know how to make a serious mess :eek:

The canister on my heavily planted adult axie tank has been running 7 months (Yes I've checked it recently) since it was last cleaned and it hasn't lost any flow, is not running any warmer and is still removing all the nasties from the water as efficiently as it ever was. The last cleaning DID throw the tank into a cycle and I cleaned it extremely gently and carefully and THAT is not a performance I would want to repeat every couple of months and I don't imagine the instability in the water conditions that it would cause is terribly good for the critters in the tank either.


I have to disagree here (Sorry Mere!). Once your tank is up and running, you should at least rinse your filter sponges every couple of months to remove waste. Rinse them in tank water as to not kill the bacteria, and if you have multiple sponges, stagger the rinsing so you're not rinsing all of them at the same time.

If your sponges get clogged with dirt and debris, it can greatly reduce the efficiency of your filter, and can also cause the filter to run hotter because the flow is reduced.

I don't mind if you disagree Kaysie, it's your prerogative and right to do so :D

The way an external canister filter is constructed the only pad that will really see any major sort of dirt and debris in such a short time is the 1st and coarsest one. The one that catches all the big bits and thankfully the one that houses the least bacteria because it has the smallest surface area so feel free to clean that one if you can get to it without upsetting everything else.
How often you NEED to clean a filter is greatly determined by what is in the tank and how well you do your spot cleaning.
It seems most of the members here are pulling out EVERYTHING that could and would make the tank and filter dirty each day. Every bit of uneaten food, every poo their animals do gets removed as soon as it is spotted which means that it's NOT going into the filter thus seriously reducing the "dirt" present that would need to be cleaned out but hey if you want to pull your filter apart every month or two and clean it then that's entirely up to you. You WILL be losing large numbers of your bacteria into the water you are rinsing in and you will note I said dislodge in previous posts not kill your bacteria. Dead or in a bucket they are still not in your filter.

You'll need to bare in mind that the manufacturers recommendations and the general guide lines for this have been written and determined by the aquarium FISH industry and it's hobbyists based on a tank carrying close to it's maximum bioload and in particular marine tanks and don't take animals such as newts and axolotls into account.

Pretty sure I mentioned not doing all the pads at once as well.

We've had a LOT of canister filters and some of them have been seriously put through the ringer. Hubby grows aquarium plants to sell and powering the small hothouse is an aqua one canister. Now these things make the water FILTHY. Dropped & decaying leaves, sand, grit, detritus, bugs and what not, not to mention the waste from the several hundred guppies that inhabit the tanks and tubs to keep the mosquitos at bay and the filter has done just fine flow and performance wise for 6 months at a time for a few years now without dropping a beat. This thing is cleaning the equivalent of at least 3, 4ft tanks full of fish each day so you'll forgive me if I'm not inclined to believe that a filter as large as the Fluval 105 NEEDS to be cleaned every couple of months. You might convince me to do it every 6 months but every 2-3 will just put unnecessary stress on the whole system.
We are yet to actually have any problems with Canisters aside from the occasional cracked housing from being dropped 6 inches when full of water (3 have gone that way :eek: 2 of them nice big Eheims, slippery little suckers :mad:) or the odd broken clip/tap.


I should point out for any casual readers at this point that....
Internal and HOB filters are an entirely different matter and would need cleaning on at least a bimonthly if not monthly basis simply because of the size of them.
 
although I don't think you need to clean out your canister filters every 2-3 months I would recommend it just to make sure nothings lodged in there, and it's always a good idea to keep up routine maintenance on necessary tank equipment. I used to clean out my pads in my ten gallon planted tank once a month, and I couldn't believe how dirty the pads were after a month. While it wasn't necessary to clean the pads, I would still recommend it. Since I make my own out of polyfiber it's not that expensive, and the pads do get seriously dirty, even though they would probably work without reducing the flow for another 6 months or so.
 
Just thought I would update... I took my water to the pet store to get tested in case my test was somehow faulty. Nothing. My tank still smells of ammonia, I have been cycling for close to a month now and all my levels are still at zero!

I have my ghost shrimp (Carl), frozen bloodworms and fish food in there. I don't understand why my levels won't go up :confused:. What am I doing wrong?
 
Do you have any live plants in the tank?
 
While it wasn't necessary to clean the pads, I would still recommend it. Since I make my own out of polyfiber it's not that expensive, and the pads do get seriously dirty, even though they would probably work without reducing the flow for another 6 months or so.

That being said, I only replaced my super-fine filter pad once in 4 years. Most of the time, I just rinsed things well. Manufacturers recommend you replace things far more often than you really need to.
 
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want to write back but ony have a Keyboard that i must controll by the mouse, my keyboard has suffered a minor accident so to speak hehe. i will have a new one tomorrow
 
Make sure your lights that you are using have the right spectrum for plant life. If not you can buy some fairly cheap ones at home depot/lowes. I think I bought my bulbs for like $5. I would recomend any plant that is low light, and fast growing. Water wisteria, cabomba, hornwort, and anacharis of a few, the first two being my preference
 
Having plants would make your ammonia levels lower. Seems weird you're not getting ammonia yet...
 
Having plants would make your ammonia levels lower. Seems weird you're not getting ammonia yet...

Yes I just don't understand it. I thought maybe it was my kit but the pet store's results were the same. I'll try another store just for fun but any tips to get my levels up would be appreciated. I'm starting to worry, I can't even cycle a tank what kind of momma will I be to an axie :(
 
I am NOT going to enter the "how often to clean your filter" debate now as it has been raging in the fish world for decades now and no-one can agree :rolleyes:
I was however able to get my hands on a Fluval 105 today to look inside of it and it is a very easy task to take out the 1st black sponge filter to give it a quick rinse so Yes I would probably do that on a quarterly basis but I'd leave the rest alone. You don't need to clean the little ceramic tubes usually (the bulk of your bacteria are here) but the filter pads themselves will need to be done every now and then during the year.

:( I'm so sorry Melissa I shall have to have a think about why you have no ammonia.
I did see one tank not so long ago that cycled without ever showing ammonia and it was an ENORMOUS tank so don't throw in the towel just yet.
I'll get back to you if I have any brainwaves ;)

Live plants won't lower ammonia but rotting leaves WILL create more. Plants can't use ammonia any more than you or I can.
I'd add Ambulia and some of the green sword plants (Echinodorus) to the list already given :happy:
 
Plants actually prefer ammonia to nitrate, not to say that they will not uptake tons of nitrate as well. I've heard of people who go out and buy a ton of plants if they don't have time to cycle their tank, and use the plants to help control ammonia while cycling with their fish. On the filter cleaning, I just wanted to add that if we're talking about the ceramic rings I agree you shouldn't clean those often. Those are there for the bacteria, and not for mechanical filtration.
 
Plants actually prefer ammonia to nitrate, not to say that they will not uptake tons of nitrate as well. I've heard of people who go out and buy a ton of plants if they don't have time to cycle their tank, and use the plants to help control ammonia while cycling with their fish. On the filter cleaning, I just wanted to add that if we're talking about the ceramic rings I agree you shouldn't clean those often. Those are there for the bacteria, and not for mechanical filtration.

*sigh* Plants do NOT use ammonia. It's a toxin to them just like it is to almost every living thing on the planet but adding them will help with ammonia removal.

Here's why adding plants helps.
The nitrobactor & nitrosomas that remove the ammonia from our water, the same ones that live in our filters actually prefer living in the root zones of plants because those areas actually have better water flow and MUCH higher oxygen levels than the gravel/sand. Plant roots also have bacteria living on their roots that the nitrosoma and nitrobactor are drawn to and like to hang around with. The bacteria you are trying to cultivate during cycling LOVE the roots of plants. More plants = more root zones = more friendly bacteria = more nitrifying bacteria = more ammonia removed from the water.
The plants themselves do not use the ammonia they simply provide the perfect home for more of the bacteria that do.

For what it's worth Plants don't use all that much of the Nitrate produced in the average tank (less than half) unless you have an awful lot of them in there but then there wouldn't be much room left for anything else that would produce the ammonia to start with.

Oh and yes I mean the little rings. Didn't think everyone would understand what the heck I was saying if I called them ceramic noodles or biomedia ;)

Usually when people use the phrase "clean my filter" particularly someone who doesn't have much experience with filters the automatic understanding is to clean ALL of the filter.
Those of us with more experience need to make ourselves clearer in regard to this particular topic. If you need to clean out the stage one sponge then you clean it but leave the rest of it alone. You don't want to be messing with the biological component of the filter.


Melissa what else have you been doing in the last month. How often do you change the water and how much do you change?

How often do you add the bloodworm/fishfood?
The smell your getting could just be from the bloodworm. That stuff has a funky aroma but it will be easy to tell if that is what you're smelling by giving a defrosted cube a sniff. :sick:

A fully cycled filter has a very distinct smell. It's very earthy and kind of like the ground in a rain forest. Give your sponges a smell and see what you've got.

Have all your other readings remained unchanged over this time? Have you seen any increase in Nitrite or Nitrate at all? It's possible that you have a faulty test and given the time frame so far by the time you've taken it to the store to be tested your tank has moved on and your ammonia is actually zero.
There is a slight possibility that your tank is cycled and you missed it but this all assumes a shift in your nitrite levels in the last month and that your Nitrate is rising.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out what the heck is going on and why you're not getting any ammonia.
If you tank isn't cycled it may be time to move onto pure ammonia drops or getting a hold of someone's filter media that they want cleaned out and giving it a serious rinsing and a bit of a squeeze in your tank or in a bucket that you can pour into your tank
 
No worries ask away! My levels have always been 0. (except the ph of course!). I brought my water to have it tested thinking maybe it was faulty, but all my levels from their test was zero as well.

I have been adding fish food every few days, have had a shrimp in there for 2 weeks. I only did one partial water change (I thought my shrimp had died, turns out he was molting!) and it was I would say about a 15% change. This was about a week and a half ago.

My filter has been running the entire time, on high. I have a 20 gallon.

I'm trying to think of more information I could give... I'm very confused as to why my levels are not going up. Like I said, my tanks smells very strongly of ammonia.

I will do a filter sniff test as soon as I can. Thanks for all your help!
 
Im sorry to hear that you still have probleme whit your cycle, it´s new for me also.

I still dont have a keybord, so i make it short and simple for me. Values from today.

NO2 -- 0,02 strange dont you think.
NO3 -- 13
NH3 -- exactly the same colour as my tap water, so it´s hard to tell.

Im i really finished with the hole process..If you want to see i have a video on my plastic setup.

1-5.jpg

Ammonia colour tank water Slightly darker photo what i can see, so same colour. I dont do like this when i messure value of curse
2-4.jpg

Ammonia in my tap water
 
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I'd hate to get into another argument on here, but plants definitely use ammonia. They also do use a ton of nitrate. I'm no plant expert, but I've had a planted tank or two, and if you have a fully planted tank you have to put a ton of nitrate in to keep them fed. I used to put 40 ppm's of nitrate in my planted tank every other day, and it would be down to 0 after 2 days. I wish I could find a better source to prove that plants use ammonia, but I didn't want to spend too long searching for a clear cut and dry statement that they do, but heres a link off a planted forum talking about using plants to help cycle a tank because they use ammonia.
Put new plants & new fish in tank at same time?
 
found a post with more explanation, and tom barr has a bit more authority on plants in my mind than random posters. On a side note I did not know that excessive amounts of ammonia/ammonium are toxic to plants, so yes to an extent you are right it can be bad for plants. But I think for the purpose of cycling the level of ammonia would not harm plants.
when does ammonia become toxic to plants
 
I don't want to get into an argument either but since you insist please allow me to correct a little misinformation for you or perhaps it's simply misinterpretation of the science and not just by you it seems :(

Perhaps you should find a more reliable source than forums where anyone can post their 2 cents worth and read the posts you choose to link to completely AND the research behind them before you jump in and let fly at someone with a chemistry and biology background who has been keeping heavily planted aquariums for more than a decade, who is married to someone who has been keeping them for more than 30 years. 2 people who also grow and sell aquarium plants.
For what it's worth Hubby goes way back with Tom and YES he is a god in the aquarium world and the go-to guy for all things chemistry. Hubby also corresponds with Diane on a semi regular basis. We have her book as well. It's an interesting read :D if you're into that kind of thing.

Had you read all the way to the end of Mr Barrs post you would have read that he thought the research this is all based on was flawed and he gives his reasons.
Tom also points out that at levels of 0.5 or less ppm of NH4 plants prefer to use NO3 and who here lets their tanks run for very long at greater than 0.5ppm according to their test kit. Check the box, your tests will detect NH3/NH4

Had you also done a little research or known a little more about chemistry you would have also see than Mr Barr and Diane, who is responsible for the original research, are both taking about NH4 which is more commonly known as ammoniUM and I really wish people would stop using the name ammonia to describe both chemicals, they are VERY different beasts. Ammonia has the chemical formula of NH3. They are no more alike than the oxygen we all breath (O2) and it's cousin the very deadly ozone (O3) at least the links Tom posted got the name right :rolleyes:

According to the the posts YOU gave as reference and the references within those posts they are not using ammonia but the less toxic ammonium. That would be the "safe" substance that all the ammonia removers transform the ammonia into to make it "safe" for the critters in our tanks.
All the research Diane Walstead (author of Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) did was in relation to the plants level of nitrogen uptake when grown in a series of controlled ratios of NO3:NH4 as well as their uptake of other key elements at these ratios and has nothing to do with ammonia (NH3).

It take less energy to break the N off the ammonium than it does off the Nitrate.
So yes they WILL use ammonium first if it's present in high enough concentrations. Ammonium is also a substance that the ammonia tests we use will detect but can not distinguish from ammonia so if you're using a good water conditioner/dechlorinator or something like ammolock or if your pH is a little on the high side and the ammonia is ionizing more frequently or for what ever reason you have high NH4 levels and the plants drop the levels of NH4 then your ammonia test will show a drop in ppm BUT it's NOT a drop in the very toxic ammonia but the ammonium that you will be seeing.

My statement stands the plants themselves do not use AmmoniA. You will get some benefit from adding plants for the reasons I explained above. something Tom echos in part in his 2nd post on the 2nd link you gave (post #5)

Why the heck would you add that much Nitrate? To get that concentration IN your tank assuming a starting level of 0 then you would need to add 40mL's of pure Nitrate (which doesn't exist in anything you can buy) for every liter of water which in my 61 gallon tank would be almost 91L of pure of Nitrate to a tank with animals in it. A concentration 40ppm is the absolute maximum safe level. Why put your animals at risk? Are you sure of your measurements and resulting concentrations when it has been diluted in your tank water?
Plants would have no problems using the Nitrate from the average plant fertilizer over 2 days.

I don't ever supplement with Nitrate and avoid anything with it added or add it to my tanks in any way. We have a LOT of plants in almost all our tanks and we still get a build up of Nitrate, it's slower than in the unplanted tanks but it's still there so NO they are not using all that is produced by a tank that is at the upper end of its maximum bioload.

Can we drop this now Carsona?

I did learn one thing from this. Cycling your filter in a bucket is a MUCH easier way to go. Never thought of that one. WooHoo.
 
Im sorry to hear that you still have probleme whit your cycle, it´s new for me also.

I still dont have a keybord, so i make it short and simple for me. Values from today.

NO2 -- 0,02 strange dont you think.
NO3 -- 13
NH3 -- exactly the same colour as my tap water, so it´s hard to tell.

I still say you're cycled. I wouldn't worry about 0.02 Nitrite especially if you're still adding the ammonia drops and if the ammonia is testing the same as your tap water then you know at least where it's coming from, it could very well be NH4 that it is showing on your test ;) and it's not going up so that's good. Your Nitrate is rising so Nitrite is being converted. It all looks good from here Girus. Good luck with the keyboard. I can only imagine how irritating it is to be without one :(
 
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