Another cycling question thread

M

mekkha

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
290
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
New Brunswick
Country
Canada
Display Name
Melissa
Hi guys,
I started cycling my tank about 6 days ago by throwing in a frozen bloodworm cube. Nothing is happening, except there is a smell when I open the tank to test the water. All levels are at zero (except the ph obviously). I know these things take time, but the smell put me off a little.

It kind of smells like urine...

Is this normal and I am just being inpatient? Is there anything else I can do, like throw in some shrimp or more bloodworms? I did get a bottle of nutrifin (it came with my testing kit) should I throw some of that in there too?

Sorry, I tried looking for answers with the search, I know you have probably answered this millions of times :eek:. I just really want to get things rolling. Thanks again!
 
the smell should indicate there is ammonia in the tank. It's my understanding that ammonia is what makes a fish tank smell, so if there is no ammonia there should be no smell. Not sure how accurate this is, but I remember reading this somewhere. Are you sure your ammonia tests are accurate? Throwing in a prawn/shrimp woudl definatly add ammonia. I'm not sure what nutrafin is, but if it's the supposed bio bacteria in a bottle I personally don't trust it. There are others who swear by it, so the decision to use it is up to you. cycling can take a long time though.
 
Wow you're fast! I'm using the "freshwater master test kit" and not the strips as I had read on here they weren't accurate. My ammonia is kind of hard to read, the color isn't bright yellow (which would indicate 0 ppm) but not quite that greenish tint of 0.25.... close, but not quite. I wonder if maybe it is starting to go up?
 
lol, just happened to log on at the time, I would put the test up to a light. Sometimes if you look at the tube with a bright light on the other side you can see the results better. Also make sure to shake it up really well for at least 5 seconds. You really do have to shake it up hard, sometimes you can get two different results from the same water. Also make sure to wait the full 5 minutes. If the results dont change after that, maybe test your results from a pet stores test kit results? they usually test your water for free
 
I did put it under a light, and it just seems like it is in between colors. I'll try it again (maybe I am not shaking it hard enough) and take my water to the pet store to compare. Thanks for the tips!
 
lol if it's not bright yellow then it's not zero ;) you have to remember there are numbers 0.01 to 0.24 between 0 and 0.25 it's not a case of it being 0 and yellow and then being that green and 0.25. Ammonia rises slowly at first and more often than not during you time keeping tanks you will get colours with readings between the values on your test chart.
A reading of 0.15 for example would give a slight green yellow colour right between the 0 and 0.25 colours. Yours is slightly green so your ammonia is rising it's just not up to 0.25 yet :happy: give it time it will get there.
Add a little more bloodworm or fish flake etc. every few days, and I mean a little, and you will be cycled in a few weeks but be patient it can take up to 2 months to fully cycle a tank.

Mere.
 
"MereB"

I have a qustion. I get a reading at 1.0 ppm ammonia in my only so far 3day animal free cycling start. Is that to high? or shall i continue that dose? i use pure 25% ammonia 5drops in 10 gallon to get that result.
 
MereB said:
lol if it's not bright yellow then it's not zero ;) you have to remember there are numbers 0.01 to 0.24 between 0 and 0.25 it's not a case of it being 0 and yellow and then being that green and 0.25. Ammonia rises slowly at first and more often than not during you time keeping tanks you will get colours with readings between the values on your test chart.
A reading of 0.15 for example would give a slight green yellow colour right between the 0 and 0.25 colours. Yours is slightly green so your ammonia is rising it's just not up to 0.25 yet :happy: give it time it will get there.
Add a little more bloodworm or fish flake etc. every few days, and I mean a little, and you will be cycled in a few weeks but be patient it can take up to 2 months to fully cycle a tank.

Mere.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I feel a little embarrassed now, why didn't I think of that :eek:. I shall add more bloodworms! I also got a little glass shrimp yesterday to hopefully help the process (while eating some of the bloodworm residues!)
 
grius said:
"MereB"

I have a qustion. I get a reading at 1.0 ppm ammonia in my only so far 3day animal free cycling start. Is that to high? or shall i continue that dose? i use pure 25% ammonia 5drops in 10 gallon to get that result.
Click to expand...
I'd 1/2 the dose, maybe 3 drops, or do more regular water changes.
1ppm is fatal for aquatic life AND some bacterias. Ideally you want to keep it below 1ppm. For preference it will need to be between 0.25 and 0.75 while it's cycling. Once your ammonia eating bacteria have established you will see a drop in your ammonia and Nitrite will start to rise at that point I would drop it again to 1-2 drops. Depending on what is in the tank you may be able to stop the drops completely and just use a little fish food.
Just keep and eye on it, keep the ammonia down below 0.8 and wait. Using the drops will speed up your cycle a little but you are still in for a fair wait like the rest of us it just means your tank will stay cleaner than those of us using and organic ammonia source ;)

Don't feel embarrassed it's not like they print it on any of the packaging :happy:
The glass shrimp is a good idea :happy: anything to help keep the tank a little cleaner has GOT to be a good thing ;) and it will give you something to watch while you're cycling. Just keep an eye on those ammonia levels and change water to keep it down to a maximum of about 0.5 or lower to keep your shrimp healthy. You don't want it to be 0 at this point as you need some ammonia present to get your bacteria going. No food = no bacterial growth ;)

Good luck you 2 :happy:
 
Thanks for you help.

I just tested for ammonia without any new daily add before. But this test is soo dificult to read right, and the colours dont match at all with those on the colour scale. So how i can i know what i have in ammonia value?

Red Sea Ammonia Mini-Lab Test Kit

This is the one i use, not the best reviews from other people either. So maybe better to whait and get a new test, because i just dont trust this one.,

Sorry to borrow you thread mekkha.
 
Last edited:
grius said:
Thanks for you help.

I just tested for ammonia without any new daily add before. But this test is soo dificult to read right, and the colours don't match at all with those on the colour scale. So how i can i know what i have in ammonia value?

Red Sea Ammonia Mini-Lab Test Kit

This is the one i use, not the best reviews from other people either. So maybe better to whait and get a new test, because i just dont trust this one.,

Sorry to borrow you thread mekkha.
Click to expand...

The test as long as it's still withing it's best before date should be fine. They all pretty well use the same reagents and color charts it's just the package that's different. That said it is possible to get the odd dud test kit.

What do you mean by "the colors don't match"? Is the color you are getting a shade of yellow/green or some other color?

As I said above more often than not you will get a color that is between the ones on the chart so you will need to use your judgement as to where in the scale it would fit.

The chats could be better made :rolleyes: and you need to imaging it less as blocks of color and see it more as a ruler with and infinite number of different color variations with a number relating to the ppm of ammonia for each shade.
More like this maybe (apologies for the size :eek: )
Original API colour chart >>> Color gradient with original #'s >>> Color "ruler" I can't guarantee the accuracy of the placement of all the numbers but it should give you the general idea.
2ppzuhk.jpg
 
Hi MereB.

This test also show ammonia in my tap water, i dont know if that is possible? Well well i continue with this ammonia test, see how it goes:)

Sorry if i dont answer your questions, but im to tierd to sitt and write for the moment.. But as mentioned i shall continue with this product.

Thanks for the help.
 
Last edited:
grius said:
Hi MereB.

The chart you seent have much more the colours i get from my result than the chart i got with the testkit.

But this test also show ammonia in my tap water, i dont know if that is possible? And if follow the chart you seent i have about 0.50 ppm in my tap water o_O ?
Click to expand...
I'm glad something is matching up for you. I tried to get all the numbers in the right places on the gradient charts but they may be a little off in places. For the most part it should give you a good enough guide to get you through.

If you do have 0.50 ppm ammonia in your tap water (some places around the world DO add ammonia to tap water so yes it is extremely possible there is ammonia in our water) then you can probably forgo the ammonia drops as there is sufficient ammonia in your water already to feed the bacteria to start with.
The ammonia in your water is not a huge problem for you while cycling, it will help for now, but once you are cycled it could be a concern. Fortunately there is a simple fix for it :happy: you may need a Water conditioner of some description. These water additives, which are available from pet and aquarium stores, remove chlorine, chloramines, heavy metals AND ionize any Ammonia by converting it to Ammonium rendering it harmless.
The only real issue you could have using a water conditioner is that your test also tests for ammonium (NH4) so you will likely get a false reading for ammonia from time to time if you test within 24 hours of adding the conditioner.
Once you have made the initial dose to your tank (see the back of the bottle for dosing directions) you will only need to treat any new water you add to your tank during water changes etc.


:eek: I've taken another look at the picture on the link you posted for your test kit which I'm ashamed to say I didn't study terribly closely before or I probably would have seen that it's a marine AND freshwater test kit.
The color charts for Marine and freshwater are slightly different. The marine chart goes from Yellow through a greeish colour and quickly into blue greens. If that is the chart you have been looking at it's no wonder it has been confusing you. There should be another chart in the box that looks like the one I posted for you. It may even be on the back of the Marine chart. If you can't find it then you could probably print out the chart I posted for you and keep it with your test kit.
Red sea is actually and EXTREMELY good test kit. It's actually a little better than the budget API test kits that most of the Caudata members are using so you can rest assured your tests are accurate you just have the wrong chart to compare it with I suspect :happy:
You will also need to make sure you are following the directions for testing freshwater rather than salt/marine.



After some hunting I found this online. It's the red sea freshwater ammonia chart
Ammonia.jpg
 
Last edited:
"If you do have 0.50 ppm ammonia in your tap water (some places around the world DO add ammonia to tap water so yes it is extremely possible there is ammonia in our water)"

I only get more and more uncertain and confused on my tests hehe If i have ammonia in my tap water that sound like a probleme, after cycling i meen. I juist called and asked for water value here in my municipality, so they shall look that upp and get back to med later today.

I have to change water for my Tiger salamanders pretty often, so i use "Tetra Aqua Safe" for that. So i had my new tank (for cynops.ensicauda) running 4days with conditioner, before adding ammonia and start to test.

Tetra Aquasafe | Aquarium Supplies

":eek: I've taken another look at the picture on the link you posted for your test kit which I'm ashamed to say I didn't study terribly closely before or I probably would have seen that it's a marine AND freshwater test kit"

Hehe no need to be ashamed=) Though i can only find one chart, and it have the colours from yellow to dark blue.. And i did some closly reading in the manual to se if it says something about Marine and Freshwater, but i cant find anything about that!

Tank you so much =)!! shall print the chart on photo paper.
Just got a call with water test. Less then 0.01 ml per Liter..Is that good or bad?

I apologize if it gets a bit messy in my message.
 
Last edited:
The ammonia in your tap water usually comes in the form of Chloramine (chlorine + amine). Amine = ammonia.

A dechlorinator breaks the molecule into chlorine (which evaporates) and amine. The amine (ammonia) will be dealt with by your biological cycle. This is another reason to have a healthy biological cycle in place.
 
Kaysie said:
The ammonia in your tap water usually comes in the form of Chloramine (chlorine + amine). Amine = ammonia.

A dechlorinator breaks the molecule into chlorine (which evaporates) and amine. The amine (ammonia) will be dealt with by your biological cycle. This is another reason to have a healthy biological cycle in place.
Click to expand...

Then i understand this a little better Thanks for the explanation.

Btw. I Printed the freshwater chart and tested again. And the colours do match much better compare to the chart from the test!
 
Last edited:
grius said:
Then i understand this a little better Thanks for the explanation.

Btw. I Printed the freshwater chart and tested again. And the colours do match much better compare to the chart from the test!
Click to expand...

So glad the colours are matching better for you. If the book only had one set of instructions then that's fine. Not all kits have different instructions and it's one less complication if they only have 1 set.
1ppm = 1ml/L so you can read 0.01 mL's per Litre the same as parts per million making it 0.01 ppm so yes that is good it's pretty darned close to zero

Thank you Kaysie for explaining that :happy:

I can't find anywhere that says that Aquasafe removes ammonia like a product such as SeaChem's Prime (not promoting it or suggesting you buy it) for example would do so you will get the dangerous ammonia as a side effect of the chloramines being broken apart and in an uncycled tank you will see it more dramatically as the ammonia isn't being removed by your filter bacteria yet.
If you had huge amounts of ammonia in your tap water I would maybe suggest a more complete conditioner to help your filter cope but if it isn't a problem in your existing tanks then I wouldn't expect it to be a problem in your new tank once it's cycled.

A little science for you on the process behind a Dechlorinator. You don't have to read it but it may interest some and let's face it Chemistry can be confusing ;)

All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3)

Chemically it looks like this
(NH2Cl - Cl = NH2 + Cl-). The Cl- evaporate and leaves the nitrogen atom in the NH2 molecule with a gap to fill in it's outer electron shell to make it stable again so it then grabs an atom of loose Hydrogen (which has an electron to "give away") from your water and binds with it like this (NH2 + H = NH3) and you suddenly have pure ammonia where there wasn't before and there is where most dechlorinators stop.
Which isn't a huge problem in a healthy well cycled tank/filter given a little time for the bacteria to do their thing and assuming your pH is below 8.
After pH 8 the toxicity of ammonia is dramatically increased but that's a whole other chapter.

Prime (and a few others) to continue the example from above go one step further and then binds one more H+ atom to the NH3 converting it to NH4 (ammonium) and rendering it harmless to aquatic life but still detectable with the liquid tests we use.
Here ends the science lesson ;)
 
Last edited:
MereB.

I cant get more confused then i allready are=)

i have todays test result. Though i cant read ammonia value as i get diferent results on those two chart. The chart that arrives with the test shows between 0.5-1.0, so i quess around 0.75-0.80. But the other chart shows 1-2,5. These colours dont match all of sudden. I get a blue-green colour in my test tube, with more blue then green.

I do exacly as it says. Bottle A 11drops shake 10sek, B 4drops shake 10, C 4drops shake 10 and then whait 15min.

For nitrit/nitrat i use sticks. Tomorrow i get "TropicMarin" Nitrit/nitrat test drops that may show another value.

Ammonia= 0.75-0.80 acording to chart from testkit.
Nitrit= 3 / 1ppm yesterday.
Nitrat= 30
pH= 7.2--7.3

Bad so far?
If i shall stop use pure ammonia i dont know. Perhaps i have good amount ammonia in my tank..
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Back
    Top