T. marmoratus-side shots

[pin-pin]

No eggs for me this year, but I got a "new" camera (a new old camera from ebay)--Nikon 4300 to replace the one which was stolen in Italy.

Thought I'd share some photos, especially since that Dave guy is hard to reach nowadays.

Anyone notice that an "upper lip" of the marmoratus? I'm hoping this is normal. I see it in two other marmoratus. They eat normally.

 

[jennifer]

Very nice, Pin-pin. You are lucky that yours are willing to stay aquatic. My marms are all hauled out on land these days.

Regarding that upper lip, this is something I have noticed and wondered about. It's common on crested newts, and I've seen it in Notophthalmus and other genera too. I've wondered if it means anything, as I don't recall ever seeing it on newly-imported or wild newts.

 

[rubén]

The "upper lip" is very common in marmoratus. In fact, I would be surprised if one marmoratus doesn't have this characteristic, specially females.

So.. beautiful and bright animals Apples, compliments

 

[david]

I'm not hard to find if I know that you're looking Pin Pin. Looks like they're doing great.

 

[sergé]

There was been things published on these upperlips (in a german magazine AMPHIBIA) but can't remember the exact conclusions. It seems some populations of Triturus (but also Lissotriton, Neurergus etc) develop these lips, especially females when they are in breeding condition. I have sen it in several species. It could have to do with feeding (as males also have it sometimes). But don't worry, it is nothing problematic.

 

[joan]

I have T. karelinii, and my aquatic ones have this upper lip thing too. How closely related are karelinii and marms?

 

[david]

I'd say very. Probably kissing cousins on their mothers side

 

[joan]

Funny. lol.

I meant like, in ambystomids, A. mavortium and A. mexicanum are more closely related than say, A. mavortium and A. laterale. I know marms and T. pygmaeus were once considered a single species (2 subspecies), I was just wondering how closely these two are related.

 

[william]

well they are in the same genus, and if cristatus, dobrogicus, karelinii and carnifex were once a single species, and that marmoratus can interbreed with cristatus, i'd say they are very closely related, i would imagine the 2 species could interbreed if their ranges happened to overlap.

 

[william]

great pictures by the way!

 

[joan]

Thanks Will, that's along the tracks of what I'm looking for. Has anyone ever made a phylogenetic tree for the major (or described) species of caudates?

 

[william]

i've seen ones for a few different genera, infact i've seen one for "triturus" i'll see if i can dig it up for you.

 

[william]

http://www.livingunderworld.org/caudata/database/salamandridae/triturus/hyp_clade.gif

 

[pin-pin]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Sergé Bogaerts wrote on Thursday, 04 August, 2005 - 07:11 :</font>

"It seems some populations of Triturus (but also Lissotriton, Neurergus etc) develop these lips, <u>especially females when they are in breeding condition.</u> "<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Well, that is welcome news. Thank you Serge!

 

[henk]

I have seen this longer upperlip in females of several Paramesotriton species (incl. deloustali & laoensis)

 

[thomas]

I have also seen it in females of T.vulgaris and T.cristatus

 

[pin-pin]

A rather creative way to get my attention.

Here is the fellow in a more dignified pose.

 

[jeff]

The "Creative photo" tripped me up at first; I couldn't figure out what I was looking at for several seconds.

I believe ours may be from the same breeding period. How big our yours at this time? And have you kept yours aquatic? Mine have been kept terrestrial exclusively.

 

[pin-pin]

Necro'd!

So it seems that at least 5 of the 7 are males. It would explain the really lovely colouration and aggressive feeding they exhibit! Although I'm told that females are not shy about grabbing food.

Begging even.

Hopefully the crests will get more impressive this year.

 

[david]

Yes Jeff, yours and Pin Pin's are brothers and sisters. The girl aren't shy about eating Pin Pin. Especially during breeding season while the males seem too busy showing off instead of eating. Nice pics Pin Pin