Strange odor, skin prob (involving Paramesotriton)

[edward]

Hi Tim,
If the animal is immobilized and is kept in a static body of water then it can suffocate as the water around the body is saturated with carbon dioxide and the oxygen is absorbed through the skin. If there aren't any currents to remove the "stale" layer of water then oxygen deprivation can occur.
Its possible that the newt would have suffocated anyway or was already dead but still looked like it was alive.
I once spoke to a pathologist who told me she hated necropsing reptiles and amphibians as the heart could still be beating hours after the animal was clinically dead. FWIW I sent up a fire salamander to the Zoo's pathologist that I thought was in rigor mortis (I was able to pick it up by the end of the tail and its body stuck out straight like a statue.) When he went to start the necropsy the salamander was limp (expected as bodies become limp after rigor) but when he went to start the necropsy the salamander tried to bite him. He sent the salamander back down to the building where it passed away over night despite emergency vet care (shotgun approach, steroids and amphibian ringers). After necropsy this time it died from a abscess in the liver.
Good luck with the rest of them,
Ed

 

[edward]

On a side note,
The newt garter snake arms war is even more interesting when you look at some of the other articles on it. There are different populations of rough skin newts with different levels of the tetrodotoxins. The garter snakes also have different levels of resistance to the toxins depending upon which populations of the newts they are feeding upon.
Ed

 

[kai]

Hi Tim,

sorry to hear about that. I'd also guess at toxin release (there seems to be some mucus along with the bubbles).

Please, pretty please, always preserve dead Paramesotriton (as well as other unidentified newts)! We definitely need more hard data on these critters and us systematic biologists still need preserved bodies to get these... I'd recommend to use 10% Formalin (i.e. 4% formaldehyde concentration) for newts which have possibly been dead for a day or two (dilute to half the original concentration after a week or so) - ethyl alcohol is better suited with freshly killed specimens since it's a bit slow in penetrating tissues. However, it would be a good idea to also start collecting DNA samples by stealing a bit of freshly shedded skin, draining it by squeezing it between some clean tissue paper and placing each damp skin sample in a small vial with ethyl alcohol (preferably 95% but down to 70% should also work) - along with a slip of paper with pencil written data!

Best wishes,
kai "busy from this year's first breeding success: 0,1 H.s.

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[TJ]

Hi Kai. Congrats on your breeding success! I was actually wondering earlier today where you'd disappeared! Well, 2 of the remaining 4 are definitely the same kind as the one pictured above that died, including the one shown crawling on the mouse. I'll get those solutions. I could have had a DNA sample to send you from one that earlier died after having lost a piece of tail, probably from a bite. It was hanging off by a thread and I ended up deciding to have it snipped free (at which time I smelled the same odor!). I should have preserved the snipped off bit, but didn't. Will certainly contact you if I find a nice piece of shedded skin!
Cheers