R/axolotls gets on my nerves man

[hannarm06]

I posted a picture of my happy girl after a VERY tiny piece of lean meat off of a steak (less than pea-size), unseasoned, no fat. It looked like she was smiling and I thought it was cute. From there, I had people telling me that mammal meat is “toxic” or harmful to axolotls, and that it’s entirely indigestible. Literally anywhere else I’ve researched has said beef and steak are fine in moderation as an occasional treat. The only place I’ve heard differently is in that subreddit on more than one post, but nowhere else. When I expressed that and said I took the info with a grain of salt as I didn’t have a reliable source on it, I got downvoted lol. I’m perfectly fine with being proven wrong if anyone has a reputable, science-backed source telling me mammal meat is toxic to axolotls, but that subreddit is an echo chamber of its own misinformation so I’m skeptical of most of the advice given there.

 

[michael]

, but that subreddit is an echo chamber of its own misinformation so I’m skeptical of most of the advice given there.

Axolotl keepers be crazy. They like to tell you what for. Do what works for you.

 

[Nemesor Jack]

Not just redditt, and not just axolotls.

After nearly 30 years of fish keeping, I've found any time I ask a question or make a post about a non-standard situation, the nay-sayers and ninnies come pouring out of the woodwork. And the problem got way way worse after the internet was commercialized and anyone could access it from their phone....

All of the brainy smurfs in the world now have access to what used to be an enthusiast's tool to share information. And they have junked up the signal pretty bad.

As a rule of thumb, whatever the subject (carpentry, fish keeping, amphibians, model railroading...) unless someone specifically says they have done something before and details exactly how it failed, I just assume the negative responses are being penned by self-important brainy smurfs who have no idea what they are talking about, but certainly enjoy the talking.

Edit: btw, let us know how the beef works out

 

[hannarm06]

Not just redditt, and not just axolotls.

After nearly 30 years of fish keeping, I've found any time I ask a question or make a post about a non-standard situation, the nay-sayers and ninnies come pouring out of the woodwork. And the problem got way way worse after the internet was commercialized and anyone could access it from their phone....

All of the brainy smurfs in the world now have access to what used to be an enthusiast's tool to share information. And they have junked up the signal pretty bad.

As a rule of thumb, whatever the subject (carpentry, fish keeping, amphibians, model railroading...) unless someone specifically says they have done something before and details exactly how it failed, I just assume the negative responses are being penned by self-important brainy smurfs who have no idea what they are talking about, but certainly enjoy the talking.

Edit: btw, let us know how the beef works out

As someone who grew up with the internet, I’ve noticed it’s gotten especially bad the past few years as more people become chronically online. My baby still looks happy and healthy as usual!

 

[Dess]

I posted a picture of my happy girl after a VERY tiny piece of lean meat off of a steak (less than pea-size), unseasoned, no fat. It looked like she was smiling and I thought it was cute. From there, I had people telling me that mammal meat is “toxic” or harmful to axolotls, and that it’s entirely indigestible. Literally anywhere else I’ve researched has said beef and steak are fine in moderation as an occasional treat. The only place I’ve heard differently is in that subreddit on more than one post, but nowhere else. When I expressed that and said I took the info with a grain of salt as I didn’t have a reliable source on it, I got downvoted lol. I’m perfectly fine with being proven wrong if anyone has a reputable, science-backed source telling me mammal meat is toxic to axolotls, but that subreddit is an echo chamber of its own misinformation so I’m skeptical of most of the advice given there.

Axolotls simply do not have digestive enzymes to metabolize beef, chicken, pork, lamb, etc. I include the others because there are people who believe those foods are fine for axolotls as well. By not having the digestive enzymes to metabolize the beef, this means the meat will pass through, potentially cause minor digestive upset, possibly not, but they will not be getting any nutrients from it either, rendering it useless as food, the sole purpose of eating. If the meat had any preservatives in it, however, there could be some concern, as many human foods , particularly meats, are preserved with nitrites, nitrates and sodium. We know any level of nitrites above 0ppm is toxic to axolotls. If you picture axolotls in their natural environment of Lake Xochimilcho, do you envision steer, pigs, chickens or lambs at the edge of the water with axolotls ready to eat their prey? Of course not, and that’s as logical as it gets, they weren’t meant to eat these animals, they don’t have the dentition nor the digestive metabolism to utilize their nutrients. Hope that makes sense. Thanks

 

[JM29]

Hi,
Just a few remarks :
- axolotls don't actually "smile" like us humans,
- if pieces of meat are not digested, they should be recognisable in the poo. So wait and see...
- as for digestibility, I'm more concerned by pellets and other transformed foods. At least some pellets for axolotls or fish contain ingredients like soya protein (cheaper than fish protein) or wheat gluten (to give a form to the pellet), which are not very well assimilated. This can result to digestive troubles and water pollution.

 

[hannarm06]

Hi,
Just a few remarks :
- axolotls don't actually "smile" like us humans,
- if pieces of meat are not digested, they should be recognisable in the poo. So wait and see...
- as for digestibility, I'm more concerned by pellets and other transformed foods. At least some pellets for axolotls or fish contain ingredients like soya protein (cheaper than fish protein) or wheat gluten (to give a form to the pellet), which are not very well assimilated. This can result to digestive troubles and water pollution.

I know they don’t smile but it just looked like she was, and she pooped normally after eating the steak and hasn’t shown any signs of infection or illness

 

[wolfen]

the staple diet for axolotls in labs etc.. used to be chopped liver, for reference read Newsletters | Ambystoma Genetic Stock Center
cows chickens pigs humans etc.. will be consumed by the natural inhabitants of a body of water when drowned.
axolotls should be fed a varied and balanced diet which includes all the protein vitamins and minerals required, ideally this should be from water based prey.
r/axolotls has gone from helping people in need and displaying their pets to a toxic environment pandering to narcissists that are neither willing or able to recognise any opinion but theirs.

 

[frank beard]

Axolotls simply do not have digestive enzymes to metabolize beef, chicken, pork, lamb, etc. I include the others because there are people who believe those foods are fine for axolotls as well. By not having the digestive enzymes to metabolize the beef, this means the meat will pass through, potentially cause minor digestive upset, possibly not, but they will not be getting any nutrients from it either, rendering it useless as food, the sole purpose of eating. If the meat had any preservatives in it, however, there could be some concern, as many human foods , particularly meats, are preserved with nitrites, nitrates and sodium. We know any level of nitrites above 0ppm is toxic to axolotls. If you picture axolotls in their natural environment of Lake Xochimilcho, do you envision steer, pigs, chickens or lambs at the edge of the water with axolotls ready to eat their prey? Of course not, and that’s as logical as it gets, they weren’t meant to eat these animals, they don’t have the dentition nor the digestive metabolism to utilize their nutrients. Hope that makes sense. Thanks

Per the data presented in posts #7 and #8 it seems that axolotls do "have the digestive enzymes to metabolize beef, chicken, pork, lamb, etc.". So I hope you will share this information with others in the future.

 

[jikaru]

I have 12 axolotl's, my oldest ones are 17 and 18 years old. I have fed them nothing but liver, apart from the occasional "Steak", their entire lives.

 

[Gail]

I have 12 axolotl's, my oldest ones are 17 and 18 years old. I have fed them nothing but liver, apart from the occasional "Steak", their entire lives.

Man, the know it alls would argue you so hard on the age of your lots if you posted on FB groups or reddit. I've seen many arguments about life expectancy and most people seem to think they just live 5 or 6 years.

 

[Dess]

Per the data presented in posts #7 and #8 it seems that axolotls do "have the digestive enzymes to metabolize beef, chicken, pork, lamb, etc.". So I hope you will share this information with others in the future.

@frank beard
I’m well aware that the Ambystoma Genetic Stock Center @ the UofKY has fed their axolotls beef livers & hearts but there is no evidence to support axolotls actually have the digestive enzymes to break the proteins down to metabolize the nutrients appropriately. Axolotls are opportunistic feeders, but that does not equate to beef livers or hearts being a staple nutrious food source to sustain bodily function. Axolotls in these clinics are lab specimens & if you have ever been in a clinical lab setting with animal species, you would understand that proper diet is not necessarily of primary importance. In fact, I located a form from the Indiana University Axolotl Clinic as it was handed over to the KY Clinic of a waiver to be signed on their axolotl rangen pellets bc there’s no thyroxine level monitoring. I’ve personally dissected many small animals in biology classes as well as A&P classes. Live specimens are fed slightly better than those raised for scientific research purposes, but I can assure you that it’s subpar. Schools are operating on tight budgets regardless the level of education they are, so it’s completely unreliable to compare lab specimens to exotic pets we expect to keep at peak health to live a very long happy life. I respectfully stand by what I said in my original comment, but thank you for engaging.

 

[frank beard]

Well, even since I posted there is an account of feeding exclusively liver and occasional steak for 17 or 18 years. Can you explain how those axolotls have lived for 17-18 years without being able to digest their food?

The axolotl colonies in research labs at universities are strictly controlled by IACUC oversight. As part of a typical IACUC inspection they examine the food supply, they look for expiration dates, examine how the food is stored etc. Most axolotl research depends on producing embryos so the stock has to be maintained in good condition.

If your pasted image is supposed to support your contention that "proper diet is not necessarily of primary importance" it seems you have misinterpreted your evidence. That is not a waiver but is a heads up to pet owners and researchers in small labs (ie. people that don't buy axolotl food in 50 lb bags) that the Rangen diet (the same diet successfully used by axolotl pet owners for years) is not monitored for thyroxine levels. What axolotl diets available to pet owners are monitored for thyroxine levels? Do you monitor thyroxine levels in your axolotls diet? If so, can you tell us how you monitor the thyroxine levels in your axolotls food?

"Live specimens are fed slightly better than those raised for scientific research purposes, but I can assure you that it’s subpar."
What does this mean? All axolotls that are "raised" are "live".

"Schools are operating on tight budgets regardless the level of education they are, so it’s completely unreliable to compare lab specimens to exotic pets we expect to keep at peak health to live a very long happy life".
What pet owners aren't operating on a tight budget and living paycheck to paycheck? It is "reliable" to acknowledge that all pet axolotls were derived from these lab stocks that you are attempting to demonize. It would be "reliable" if you shared that some axolotl owners have fed their animals exclusively liver for 17-18 years per post #10. The same poster's signature line reads "Pets are loyal to the end.... Please don't let them down" . The evidence presented here does not support that a diet of liver is subpar. Go spread the news.

 

[jikaru]

Man, the know it alls would argue you so hard on the age of your lots if you posted on FB groups or reddit. I've seen many arguments about life expectancy and most people seem to think they just live 5 or 6 years.

If those people think 5 to 6 years is an axolotls life span, they are doing something seriiously wrong and should not have one as a pet. Their normal life span is around 12 years. Its not as easy as people think to care for them. There's so much you need to know and its all on the Axolotl site.

Well, even since I posted there is an account of feeding exclusively liver and occasional steak for 17 or 18 years. Can you explain how those axolotls have lived for 17-18 years without being able to digest their food?

The axolotl colonies in research labs at universities are strictly controlled by IACUC oversight. As part of a typical IACUC inspection they examine the food supply, they look for expiration dates, examine how the food is stored etc. Most axolotl research depends on producing embryos so the stock has to be maintained in good condition.

If your pasted image is supposed to support your contention that "proper diet is not necessarily of primary importance" it seems you have misinterpreted your evidence. That is not a waiver but is a heads up to pet owners and researchers in small labs (ie. people that don't buy axolotl food in 50 lb bags) that the Rangen diet (the same diet successfully used by axolotl pet owners for years) is not monitored for thyroxine levels. What axolotl diets available to pet owners are monitored for thyroxine levels? Do you monitor thyroxine levels in your axolotls diet? If so, can you tell us how you monitor the thyroxine levels in your axolotls food?

"Live specimens are fed slightly better than those raised for scientific research purposes, but I can assure you that it’s subpar."
What does this mean? All axolotls that are "raised" are "live".

"Schools are operating on tight budgets regardless the level of education they are, so it’s completely unreliable to compare lab specimens to exotic pets we expect to keep at peak health to live a very long happy life".
What pet owners aren't operating on a tight budget and living paycheck to paycheck? It is "reliable" to acknowledge that all pet axolotls were derived from these lab stocks that you are attempting to demonize. It would be "reliable" if you shared that some axolotl owners have fed their animals exclusively liver for 17-18 years per post #10. The same poster's signature line reads "Pets are loyal to the end.... Please don't let them down" . The evidence presented here does not support that a diet of liver is subpar. Go spread the news.

Well, even since I posted there is an account of feeding exclusively liver and occasional steak for 17 or 18 years. Can you explain how those axolotls have lived for 17-18 years without being able to digest their food?

The axolotl colonies in research labs at universities are strictly controlled by IACUC oversight. As part of a typical IACUC inspection they examine the food supply, they look for expiration dates, examine how the food is stored etc. Most axolotl research depends on producing embryos so the stock has to be maintained in good condition.

If your pasted image is supposed to support your contention that "proper diet is not necessarily of primary importance" it seems you have misinterpreted your evidence. That is not a waiver but is a heads up to pet owners and researchers in small labs (ie. people that don't buy axolotl food in 50 lb bags) that the Rangen diet (the same diet successfully used by axolotl pet owners for years) is not monitored for thyroxine levels. What axolotl diets available to pet owners are monitored for thyroxine levels? Do you monitor thyroxine levels in your axolotls diet? If so, can you tell us how you monitor the thyroxine levels in your axolotls food?

"Live specimens are fed slightly better than those raised for scientific research purposes, but I can assure you that it’s subpar."
What does this mean? All axolotls that are "raised" are "live".

"Schools are operating on tight budgets regardless the level of education they are, so it’s completely unreliable to conform pare lab specimens to exotic pets we expect to keep at peak health to live a very long happy life".
What pet owners aren't operating on a tight budget and living paycheck to paycheck? It is "reliable" to acknowledge that all pet axolotls were derived from these lab stocks that you are attempting to demonize. It would be "reliable" if you shared that some axolotl owners have fed their animals exclusively liver for 17-18 years per post #10. The same poster's signature line reads "Pets are loyal to the end.... Please don't let them down" . The evidence presented here does not support that a diet of liver is subpar. Go spread the news.

Isn't that sad so many people blindly believe everything they read on the net because it came from a Lab or Research school. About 8 of those Labs told me to euthanize my Axolotl because she was upside down. I never gave up on her and she fought to survive. She spent 2 years in the fridge and every night I'd change her water, feed her and hold her in my hand the right way up, just below the water, for over an hour. I did that every day for 2 years. By the third year she came right. She had suffered nearly every illness an axolotl could have, including internal hemorrhaging, but together we made it. She died at 8 years old. So thats what I think of your so called online official and expert information. How am I supposed to know their digestive system? I fed them they eat they're alive.

 

[jikaru]

Man, the know it alls would argue you so hard on the age of your lots if you posted on FB groups or reddit. I've seen many arguments about life expectancy and most people seem to think they just live 5 or 6 years.

If their Axolotl's are only living 6 years, they are doing something terribly wrong and shouldn't have one as a pet. It's not as easy to care for them as people may think. The normal life span of an Axolotl is around 12 years.

 

[frank beard]

I think you are confusing me with Dess!

How am I supposed to know their digestive system? I fed them they eat they're alive.

Exactly and they are alive many, many years after being fed that diet. You must be doing something right and I used your experience as evidence that axolotls do indeed "have the enzymes" to digest liver. Keep doing what you have been doing, it clearly has been working.

Also there is nothing in the "lab information" posted by Dess that in any way suggests that you are doing anything wrong. So there is no reason to doubt the "Lab or Research school", it is in complete agreement with your experience. The "Lab or Research school" entities also have a long history of feeding exclusively liver.

 

[jikaru]

I think you are confusing me with Dess!


Exactly and they are alive many, many years after being fed that diet. You must be doing something right and I used your experience as evidence that axolotls do indeed "have the enzymes" to digest liver. Keep doing what you have been doing, it clearly has been working.

Also there is nothing in the "lab information" posted by Dess that in any way suggests that you are doing anything wrong. So there is no reason to doubt the "Lab or Research school", it is in complete agreement with your experience. The "Lab or Research school" entities also have a long history of feeding exclusively liver.

Sorry for that and thank you. When they were young I fed them blood worms, but it got to the stage where it wasn't enough so I changed to liver, they've been on it ever since. Thanks again.

 

[jikaru]

I would like to share this: Your pet is a part of your life, you are their entire life.
They are your family and you are theirs.