Prolapse

[edward]

If you are interested here is a link discussing calcium deficency in amphibians.
http://www.tracyhicks.com/FFAQ.htm

Ed

 

[leighton]

Thanks for the links Ed, but they seemed to be down when I checked. Here's an update:

We brought Peely back from the hospital today. She's been eating and passing normal faeces, so the vet felt that the tiny piece of prolapsed tissue that remains was unlikely to cause any problems, and would likely drop off of its own accord. They tried using binding agents and laxative to help pass the sand in her GIT, but this didn't work, particularly so we're waiting for it to pass gradually. The location of the initial attempt to apply a purse-string suture has become a bit sore for her as it heals, but they've given us some Orabase to apply topically to protect it, and some Baytril antibiotic to reduce the chance of infection. Meanwhile we will be continuing the Myxazin antifungal treatment.

We're also going to try to vary her diet a bit more, as the vet was unsure whether a deficiency of calcium, protein or both could have been a contributory factor in the prolapse. It wouldn't hurt to vary her diet a bit in any case

 

[edward]

Hi Leighton,
I just saw your message and clicked on the link and it worked for me, so I'm not sure what is up with it...
There are many items that can be used to vary the diet of the axolotl. Earthworms maintained in calcium enriched soil are a good source of protien and calcium.
Ed

 

[leighton]

We were worried this morning as it appeared that the prolapse had recurred, but by afternoon the prolapsed tissue had dropped away completely.

We'll be keeping Peely on Baytril, Myxazin and Orabase for about two weeks until we're sure she's healed. She's eating fine at the moment (liver, pellets and earthworms over the last two days), and we've got our fingers crossed for faeces (that sounds so wrong!). I've got access to calcium carbonate at work, so I'll try enriching our wormery with that, as per Ed's suggestion.

 

[matthew]

First, how's it going now with Peely?

Second, I've read the linked article Ed (very grateful for this!) but still feel a little in the dark. I hadn't realised calcium can be given to excess (only vitamins). My current treefrog regimen (sorry - I know this is an axxie thread) is to feed crickets twice a week. I supplement with calcium dusting twice a month (may up this by one, but I have seen them drop even lightly dusted crix from their mouths)and multivitamins once a month - is this OK? I guess what I am saying is the piece talked about ratios and percentages, leaving me a tad uncertain about Doing The Right Thing. [Crix gutloaded with fishfood flake and potato / carrot.]

Finally, I once heard a herps man talking about waxxies interfering with Ca absorption. Any truth in this?

 

[edward]

Hi Matthew,
Based on your supplementing regimen I seriously doubt you are at risk of oversupplementing calcium. Personally with anurans I use a more frequent supplementation regimen depending on how frequent the animals get fed. At work, if the anuran is fed three times a week or less, the multivitamin is used with everyfeeding. If the anuran is fed more than three times a week we alternate the vitamin-mineral supplememt with straight calcium carbonate (We also use this for terrestrial caudates by order of the vets although I personally believe this to possibly be a little excessive with caudates). You only tend to have problems with excessive calcium when you exceed the recommended calcium to phosphorus ratio.
With respect to the wax worms, if the calcium to phosphorus ratio is higher than 2 to 1, then you can have the calcium bind to the fats in the waxworm causing insoluable calcium soaps to form.
Does this help?
(Please feel free to e-mail me if you have more frog questions).
Ed

 

[matthew]

Hi Ed,


It helps greatly... much food for thought here. I'll "up" my supplements.

I'll take this to an anuran thread.


Best//M

 

[leighton]

Hi,

Thanks for asking about Peely, Matthew; sorry about the delay...

She seems to be coping pretty well. There have been a couple of stringy faecal deposits (possibly due to bowel scar tissue, possibly due to the antibiotics) and she's passing the sand bit-by-bit. She's ravenously hungry, possibly because she's very keen to replace protein. She's eating (plenty) and not regurgitating, and all the signs are good. She'll be on antibiotics until the end of this week, at which point she'll be able to occupy a nice new tank which is conditioning just now. The idea is to keep the male and female separate so they don't keep mating We're hoping that will reduce some of the stress on Peely's poor insides...

Fingers crossed, she'll be out of the tiny tank she's in in a couple of days.

 

[matthew]

Nice to hear!

 

[matthew]

... and how is she now? Any news for us?

 

[leighton]

Peely passed her first solid poo yesterday! She's pretty much back to her old self, except for the repeatedly being made pregnant by Wally - which has stopped since she's been in her own tank

 

[kim]

Leighton,

Do you have and photos of peely prolapse? Please see the post floating... ive had some problems with my baby spunky and now when i got home tonight im not sure if its an poo that has been there for 5 hours poor thing or its a prolapse.

But would be great if you have some photos it would help.

 

[jenny]

ok when people mention their axys poo they say its solid. my axys dont have solid poo. its dusty

 

[katy]

jenny mine are dusty as well, looks the same as fish poo. i guess that's what they're calling solid, unless both our axies are odd

 

[leighton]

Hi Kim,

I'm afraid the photos we took at the time are not very clear, but this is all we have:

You should just be able to see in the photos an almost translucent sac located in the region of the cloaca. There is a fuller description earlier in this thread, but just to recap what we had, it was a small (4-5mm) translucent sac, in which blood vessels were visible. This translucency is apparently a good sign, as it indicates the tissue is not bleeding or dying.

I think it is important that, if Spunky has such a prolapse, you consult a vet as soon as you can. Chances are they won't be able to help directly, even if they try, but they may be able to refer you (depending on your location) to a small animal hospital. We were lucky with our location near the Dick Vet, but I know of at least one other equivalent hospital in England.

If Spunky is continuing to eat and appears to be otherwise in good condition, then you have the best possible start for a recovery. I hope Spunky doesn't have a prolapse - it's a very distressing condition.

--

Jenny and Katy,

Our axolotls produce solid, brown-to-russet faeces, though it tends to break apart when disturbed. When Peely was recovering from her prolapse, her faeces was generally 'wet', stringy and/or 'dusty'. When they were younger, the faeces was much less solid.

 

[mik]

J&K faces are somewhat like the size of kidney bean. And as Leighton says they easily break up.