Poll: species mixing

[sde]

I love mixing species! If they are the kind that get eaten! Or the kind that eats waste etc.. But I try not to mix amphibian species with any other species. A while back I mixed some A. macrodactylum with some T. granulosa, and it was fine. Speaking of mixing species, I got some funky looking snails today........

 

[Asevernnnn]

One thing I don't get... How would you mix a Reptile and an Amphibian???????????

I've seen a lower water portion with newts and acids and an upper portion with an anole or something lol

 

[EmbryH]

These results kind of make me feel sick.

I never mix species, with the exception of live food. The dangers are well-known and I simply don't understand why someone would try and toe that line.

Disease-free feeder fish or small shrimp (in small numbers) would be alright, as long as they were eaten in a few days.

 

[sde]

Mixing species doesn't always end in disaster, like people seem to think.

I know of people who have mixed species of amphibians for years without problems.
I mixed these two species without ANY problems. They are both native and WC, so they have potentially mixed in the wild anyhow.
Mixing fish with caudatas, bad idea, mixing amphibians and amphibians, generally not a good idea, but it does work sometimes.
Yes, its not always the best idea, but it can be done safely. -Seth

 

[Ted]

In the past I've learned when you start mixing species you usually end up with deaths,,I think most people start 'community amphibian tanks' because they can't afford or have room for another setup..

 

[Boomsloth]

In the past I've learned when you start mixing species you usually end up with deaths,,I think most people start 'community amphibian tanks' because they can't afford or have room for another setup..

There are very few species that can be housed together that won't either be territorial, require the same environment, or try to eat each other. I think community amphibian tanks are mostly an attempt to make a more appealing set up like community fishtanks. I think a good rule for most amphibians is that if it can eat it, it will, if it can be eaten, it will.
I posted here that I keep ghost shrimp and guppies with my axolotls, well I can say that most of the guppies are gone and only 2 ghost shrimp remain.

 

[Jonjey]

In the past I've learned when you start mixing species you usually end up with deaths,,I think most people start 'community amphibian tanks' because they can't afford or have room for another setup..

I think most people mix species for variety rather than necessity. The typical fish tank has multiple different kinds of fish, the typical amphibian tank only has amphibians, it can get boring to a lot of people. When I first started a few months ago I thought about putting ACF or similarly sized newts with my axolotls, but then I realized that keeping these creatures in a fish tank is a lot different from keeping fish in a fish tank. The typical -fish- tank is more of a moving art, a decoration, yeah there are fish in it and of course you take care of them but the hobby is typically more about creating a beautiful environment to look at. And while that can certainly carry over to keeping amphibians, I think when you own an amphibian it's much more like an actual pet than making sure it's the prettiest tank to look at, which is why people who have been keeping these creatures for a long time don't see eye-to-eye with most new people, most people come from the fish keeping world where it's all about beautiful environment, moving art, lots of variety in what kind of fish there are in the tank and a constantly changing piece of decoration for your home. I know when I first started I wanted variety, I thought the idea of just having axolotls in a tank is kind of pointless and thought that I would for sure look for something suitable to keep them with, but after a few months you become so attached to the creatures with their personalities and quirks that you'd never want to add anything to the tank that would hurt them or just effect them in a negative fashion of any way.
So speaking from the point of view of someone who is somewhat new but not brand new, I understand why a lot of new people think this way. I mean let's be honest, a tank with just axolotls wouldn't be as cool to watch as a tank with axolotls and acf and fish and shrimp etc.
But once you have these little dudes for a while you get so attached and you realize that it's not the same as keeping fish, just because they're in a fish tank doesn't mean they're fish, doesn't mean the same rules apply, and doesn't mean you can just toss in anything and sit back and watch.
And one last point, try not the blame people who don't know any better.

 

[Stupot1610]

I know this is an old thread/poll but I thought I'd throw in my two cents here.
I know lots of people will disagree with me but that doesn't bother me to be perfectly honest. I mix caudates with other caudates and anurans, but only if they are species that would naturally share the same environment in the wild. For example, I have no issues with mixing Lissotritons with Ichthyosaura alpestris, or Triturus in a suitably sized enclosure. I'm quite happy to mix B.bombina and I.a.alpestris, or Triturus, or Lissotriton sp. but, again, only if I feel the enclosure is suitably sized. Mostly I avoid mixing species that have the potential to breed with each other (i.e. two Triturus sp.), and during the breeding season there is absolutely no chance I would keep two species like that together - However I would mix juveniles as long as the species were easily distinguished from each other, i.e. T.marmoratus and some other Triturus sp, perhaps T.carnifex. I could go into more detail, but I feel that I have explained it well enough.

[I would also like to say that I do prefer species only enclosures but there are situations where a couple of species can quite easily live together without any issues]

Stuart :ufo:

 

[sde]

Hmm....trying to decide if I want to debate this or not, but honestly, I cant control myself and a love a good discussion about this subject, so I will chime in

I know lots of people will disagree with me but that doesn't bother me to be perfectly honest.

Good to know

I mix caudates with other caudates and anurans, but only if they are species that would naturally share the same environment in the wild.

I could give you plenty of examples on species that occur together in the wild and eat each other, but I wont, because what I just said makes my point.

For example, I have no issues with mixing Lissotritons with Ichthyosaura alpestris, or Triturus in a suitably sized enclosure.

Sounds like it would probably work, they all contain the same toxin, TTX, and are all similar sizes etc. etc. etc..

I'm quite happy to mix B.bombina and I.a.alpestris, or Triturus, or Lissotriton sp. but, again, only if I feel the enclosure is suitably sized.

I am not very experienced with Bombina, but from my limited research I thought they would try and eat just about everything? Why not attack a newt? Especially one as small as Lissotriton.

Here's the thing, is there any benefit to the animals themselves? I would imagine no, so there are really only potential risks. Though it depends on the species.

Here's what you have to look out for:
Eating tankmate of other species.
Different toxins.
Mating problems.
Cross breeding.
Aggressive behavior ( not eating ).
Stress from tank mate of other species.
Suitability of tank for both species.
Suitability of temperature for both species.

There might be more, but that is what I can think of off the top of my head.

Trust me Stuart, I LOVE the idea of a multi amphibian tank, but honestly I try not to think about it because I don't want to get drawn into doing it. There is most likely no benefit for the amphibians, and possibly only potential risk.
Obviously there are some compatible species, but in general, I find the idea of mixing amphibian species to simply be denying what years of trial and error has taught hobbyists.

Thanks for sharing your views, though. I definitely feel the hobby has gotten a bit up tight about the subject ( axies can suddenly not be mixed with ANYTHING except food ). And like you pointed out, some species are probably fine together, but the majority of the time that isn't the case. I like the optimism, though.

I have said it before, and will say it again....I would love to hear your experiences with species mixing, simply to gain knowledge.

Thanks for reading Have a nice evening/night/day Stuart.

 

[AuSu]

I gave mo vote here too, but I guess I chose wrong...I do have those little snails (they grow to max five millimetres in size) with Japanese fire bellied newts, they've come to tanks with live plants. They seem nearly impossible to collect away even I've tried (although now I've not seen them so much - maybe they've been eaten???). Others, I keep just one species in a tank so I can rely on keeping the conditions right. Our JFBN's are from two different families where they lived with fish (some bottom fish and tetra), shrimps and inner filters; I would claim that they've shown less stress now when having not to cope with these and temps are right etc. But you can't ask them so somebody could claim the opposite!

 

[Chinadog]

Japanese firebellies definitely don't like fish. Not long after I got mine I ran out of dechlorinator during a water change. It was in the evening so I couldn't buy more and I couldn't leave the tank water as low as it was so I topped it up with water from the Koi pool after all I knew the nitrate level is low because I do regular partial water changes with the pond as well...massive mistake! after an hour or so the newts were freaking out and wouldn't eat, by the next morning they were all out the water and trying to escape. It eventiually took three or four huge water changes before they started hanging out in the water again so even the slightest chemical trace of fish is enough to upset pyrrhos, maybe carp especially, as they would be native to Japan and would eat larvae and eggs for sure.

 

[Stupot1610]

Hmm....trying to decide if I want to debate this or not, but honestly, I cant control myself and a love a good discussion about this subject, so I will chime in



Good to know



I could give you plenty of examples on species that occur together in the wild and eat each other, but I wont, because what I just said makes my point.



Sounds like it would probably work, they all contain the same toxin, TTX, and are all similar sizes etc. etc. etc..



I am not very experienced with Bombina, but from my limited research I thought they would try and eat just about everything? Why not attack a newt? Especially one as small as Lissotriton.

Here's the thing, is there any benefit to the animals themselves? I would imagine no, so there are really only potential risks. Though it depends on the species.

Here's what you have to look out for:
Eating tankmate of other species.
Different toxins.
Mating problems.
Cross breeding.
Aggressive behavior ( not eating ).
Stress from tank mate of other species.
Suitability of tank for both species.
Suitability of temperature for both species.

There might be more, but that is what I can think of off the top of my head.

Trust me Stuart, I LOVE the idea of a multi amphibian tank, but honestly I try not to think about it because I don't want to get drawn into doing it. There is most likely no benefit for the amphibians, and possibly only potential risk.
Obviously there are some compatible species, but in general, I find the idea of mixing amphibian species to simply be denying what years of trial and error has taught hobbyists.

Thanks for sharing your views, though. I definitely feel the hobby has gotten a bit up tight about the subject ( axies can suddenly not be mixed with ANYTHING except food ). And like you pointed out, some species are probably fine together, but the majority of the time that isn't the case. I like the optimism, though.

I have said it before, and will say it again....I would love to hear your experiences with species mixing, simply to gain knowledge.

Thanks for reading Have a nice evening/night/day Stuart.

I don't have time to properly address this now, but I'd just like to say I think you'd be surprised by how many experienced keepers and experts have tanks/enclosures with two or more species.

 

[sde]

I don't have time to properly address this now, but I'd just like to say I think you'd be surprised by how many experienced keepers and experts have tanks/enclosures with two or more species.

That's fine.
I doubt I would be surprised lol, I know some experienced keepers mix species, but they are experienced keepers, after all. Plus they know the boundaries.
I actually asked that very question to Ian once, it was along the lines of "Experienced keepers mix species a lot more often, don't they?". This was in chat, so the answer is lost forever, but if I remember correctly he basically said that some people mix some species, but it isn't like it is a common thing that they are doing it all the time. It might be worth asking him again, though, cause I don't remember the answer that well.

I wish this poll showed who voted on what.

 

[bombinafreak]

I chose the bottom option, no mixing, but after some consideration I might change my mind.
I would be quite happy to keep juvenile European newts together terrestrially, providing they are similar sizes.
I also keep mixed species. Although this is outdoors in a 12x6ft enclosure, I doubt species would ever meet in this size enclosure, and if they did, there is enough space to create a niche.
However with adults I wouldn't mix, I am planning on doing smaller outdoor enclosures that are species only, 6sqft enclosures, housing 5 or so Triturus species or up to ten lissotritons. Maybe a trio of Salamandra if i ever get round to acquiring my albinos I want!

 

[Stupot1610]

I chose the bottom option, no mixing, but after some consideration I might change my mind.
I would be quite happy to keep juvenile European newts together terrestrially, providing they are similar sizes.
I also keep mixed species. Although this is outdoors in a 12x6ft enclosure, I doubt species would ever meet in this size enclosure, and if they did, there is enough space to create a niche.
However with adults I wouldn't mix, I am planning on doing smaller outdoor enclosures that are species only, 6sqft enclosures, housing 5 or so Triturus species or up to ten lissotritons. Maybe a trio of Salamandra if i ever get round to acquiring my albinos I want!

This is the situation I am in/talking about, by the way. I didn't make it clear in my first post, but this is the kind of thing I'm meaning :happy:

 

[sde]

This is the situation I am in/talking about, by the way. I didn't make it clear in my first post, but this is the kind of thing I'm meaning :happy:

Okay I see.
By the way Alexander, you have my dream enclosure!

 

[Canecorsonewt]

I was looking around and came a cross this site aqualandpetsplus.com. Saying you can mix fire bellys if they are small with eastern newts. And eastern newts in community tank with fish. I hope people dont do there research on that site. So i guess no one should lecture people about doing research. They might have just in the rong places:blush:

 

[Chinadog]

Yes, i've been on that site before. As you've seen, it's riddled with really terrible advice, especially when it comes to the newts. I'm pretty sure they just made up a bunch of stuff and left it at that, there's no way anybody with any measure of success keeping newts would say those things.
Check out the online reviews for some interesting reading!