A bit late to reply to this, but I had intended to earlier in a post that I lost before posting.
I agree this could be a worthy experiment to conduct, however, you need a lab in order to do that (because, again, this would be far more complicated than just putting the algae inside an egg), and people generally don´t have that. You also require an advanced understanding of inmunity and both caudate and algal physiology.
To do such things you need either both knowledge and deep understanding of salamander's physiology and ecology and means to make such experiments, a well-equipped lab.
Unless your definition of a well equipped laboratory is different then mine - it does not sound like it requires much of a complicated laboratory what so ever. Just some improvised equipment, salamander eggs, and algae. Perhaps a view special ordered items like an ultra small and fine needle, and perhaps some special salt mixtures to aid with minerals and water hardness for the axolotls and algae.
And also of course, some bright lights with little or no ionizing radiation. What else would you need? Microscopes are easily obtainable, and I suspect cheap and easy tests exist to determine if algae is present in the eggs after attempted inoculation.
And of course the point of this conversation IS to develop a deep understanding of algae, and salamander's physiology, ecology, immunology and other aspects pertaining to the subject. Research journals are available and there is no reason to assume that scientists have information that is not accessible to us. If we were so determined, we could discuss many of the required aspects and concerns that and come up with a proper assessment of how to perform the experiment, and if it is even practical to happen.
I don't see anything wrong with brain-storming potential science projects.
But remember, science is a process of consecutive steps building on what is already known and advancing that knowledge step-by step. Your hypotheses above rather skip a few important steps. Before thinking of putting these algae into a new species of salamander, it would be important to test the hypotheses you formulated above in the original species, the spotted salamander. I don't know where the research is at, but has it actually been demonstrated that the algae lead to faster development and bigger, healthier offspring in spotteds? Those are your hypotheses 1 and 2, and they would have to be supported by real data before moving on to 3 and 4. That alone might be a worthwhile senior or master's research project.
I understand how science works and the scientific method. Did you read any of the quotes, references, and comments I've attached, or linked too?
Yes the algae in salamander eggs lower the mortality rate of the salamander, and they hatch earlier in the original species. This is backed by real data, and I believe has been confirmed multiple times.
Additionally it now appears to be true with many of the other species (Jeffersons, Northwestern, and even the Tiger), as well as some frogs. It seems many herpetologists suspect the algae-symbiosis is actually very common in other amphibians but has yet to be documented for various reasons (lack of funds, incentives, etc)
Are you a biology student? If so, why not approach a professor who does research on salamanders with those ideas? He/She might be able to refine the ideas with you, and who knows, this could become a grad project for you...
I am not a biology student, but I have approached Erin who did research on the spotted salamader-algae relationship, and posted the emails here.
It makes one wonder how long this has been occuring. Has the algae always been incorporated with the eggs? Or is this development geologically recent? I would have to believe that if this had been going on for a very long time that the algae woudl possibly form a relationship with the salamanders that resembles that of the relationshiop some scientists believe single cell organisms developed with mitochondria eons ago. And...I think I read an article stating that the salamander's cells contained cholorplasts - and that the chloroplasts and the mitochondria were "hanging out". It would seem that the two could essentially "feed" eachother...but I could be just wildly speculating.
First I'd like to say that I believe defining "organism" is a false distinction for a variety of reasons, and instead each organism should be looked at as a thing similiar to an ecosystem.
What you are talking about is called endosymbiosis, and I don't think that has happened with salamanders just yet. However with their intimate contact with algae I could see how some genes could transfer to and from each organism over time - especially if other bacteria are involved.
I think what we are dealing with salamanders that have chloroplasts and mitochondria in the same cells, but just simply endosymbionts that grow within one another's cells. Much like how endosymbiotic (endophytes) bacteria, protozoa, and fungi grow within the cells of plants, and often connect to one another directly to share nutrients.
However -- if you can find an article that is high quality that says chloroplasts exist within salamander cells that would be fantastic - and I would hope that you'd share it here.
VESP - I think you idea is good as far as the experimentation. Releasing to the wild...perhaps a bit too much for now (but when all the axolotls are gone...maybe they will understand).
Yes I agree that releasing might not be the best thing - however, in my opinion as the original poster it is asinine not to be open minded and consider various ideas and applications. When starting this thread, I did not know where it would lead. I think it is important to consider all ideas and aspects when discussing things related to scientific application of an experiment.
I find it discouraging that someone on this forum would question your age and education. That's just friggin' rude. But you totally skipped over that, so I applaud you.
Yes - it shows that they were not taking a scientific approach to this idea. Instead of using logical claims backed with empirical evidence that algae cannot transfer to other species of salamander eggs, or refuting or addressing my claims that it should be able to for the variety of reasons I have given, they seemingly just wanted to attack the idea in general - by adding variables such as age and education, as if that would make anything more or less true.
Although, I suspect that was honestly just a general curiosity, so that being said:
I'm 21, college drop out, study biology as a hobby in the past time, have a business that sells scientific equipment with an emphasis on materials used to culture edible mushrooms. I have relatively little knowledge about salamanders, but I know a decent amount about fungi, plants, and symbiotic relationships (but it is still a hobby)
Now...I do remember reading that the algae was in the cloaca as well...and that was ANOTHER pathway into the eggs. So...yeah...
Someone needs to play around with this thing in a laboratory. I am sure there are already scientists doing so, but I would like to be on one of those teams that was able to successfully create a "solar powered" animal. It'd be cool!
Yes I think the fact that algae is found in the cloaca has very interesting implications - it may simply be a commenselistic relationship that does not help or harm the salamander - or more likely IMO, it is a symbiotic relationship and it aids with introducing the algae to the eggs during the process of laying the eggs. It could be as simple as releasing algae spores or fragments in the same proximity of the eggs, or rubbing spores on them as they come out of the salamander. While it sounds like the algae can survive without salamander eggs, it might not be able to produce spores or effectively reproduce without them. This could be the algae's way of ensuring its survival for the next reproductive cycle of the salamander - a year later.
Also - please respond if you still think this is highly impractical and unlikely to be achieved, but only if you have:
1. Read all of the references, quotes, links, etc that I have provided.
2. Disagree with the possibly because of either additional empirical knowledge or scientific research/data that you have came across. A gut feeling is nice, but not veridically useful.
3. And of course, if you do have some references that would be helpful in either debunking the idea that algae can be transferred from one species egg to another, or helpful in confirming that it is a possibility -- please share it!
It is easier to doubt then to examine. An uninformed persons doubt is useless and only brags their laziness, but an informed persons doubt is useful and expresses their diligence for finding truth.
