Organ failure ?

[DoNotDisturb]

modified holtfreters solution is salt, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, magnesium sulphate, sodium bicarbonate.
calcium chloride in large doses being alkali is a irritant and poison.
salt in large doses is a poison
magnesium sulphate in large doses is a poison.
how can you say about something when you don't know what you are talking about.
did you just buy holtfreters pre-made and not check ingredients.
please do research before making stupid comments.

I know it has CALCIUM CHLORIDE! But this stuff is made for swimming pool water, which has chlorine, and many other things in it. Obviously, it is not intended for anything else, as sometimes it is used as for even sodas, which are edible. If this is labeled as poison, it may only be something like 70% calcium chloride, and could have other ingredients. Unless you have made sure that what you are buying is 100% calcium chloride, you should not be putting that in YOUR AQUARIUM WATER.

 

[wolfen]

I know it has CALCIUM CHLORIDE! But this stuff is made for swimming pool water, which has chlorine, and many other things in it. Obviously, it is not intended for anything else, as sometimes it is used as for even sodas, which are edible. If this is labeled as poison, it may only be something like 70% calcium chloride, and could have other ingredients. Unless you have made sure that what you are buying is 100% calcium chloride, you should not be putting that in YOUR AQUARIUM WATER.

like I said do your research, I quote 'If ingested, calcium chloride can lead to burns in the mouth and throat, excess thirst, vomiting, stomach pain, low blood pressure, and other possible severe health effects'

 

[wolfen]

I know it has CALCIUM CHLORIDE! But this stuff is made for swimming pool water, which has chlorine, and many other things in it. Obviously, it is not intended for anything else, as sometimes it is used as for even sodas, which are edible. If this is labeled as poison, it may only be something like 70% calcium chloride, and could have other ingredients. Unless you have made sure that what you are buying is 100% calcium chloride, you should not be putting that in YOUR AQUARIUM WATER.

because of being in the U.K. when asked about a product in the U.S. I tend to look up the product and research it before okaying it, the product in question has even been mentioned on fish forums as a calcium supplement.
oh and for your interest I am trying to save the axolotls life, if you have suggestions for calcium chloride products in the U.S. then mention them, if you have ideas on how to resolve the issue with the axolotl then mention them, If you are wanting to keep going in circles then keep me out of it, as I am not interested.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

I know it has CALCIUM CHLORIDE! But this stuff is made for swimming pool water, which has chlorine, and many other things in it. Obviously, it is not intended for anything else, as sometimes it is used as for even sodas, which are edible. If this is labeled as poison, it may only be something like 70% calcium chloride, and could have other ingredients. Unless you have made sure that what you are buying is 100% calcium chloride, you should not be putting that in YOUR AQUARIUM WATER.

As wolfen has mentioned, in the dosages prescribed, it is safe.

 

[DobbysMom]

Update :

Today marks 4 weeks of Dobby in the fridge. She had 0 output the first 2 weeks, after changing to the suggested solution she has since had 3 small poops, she has not eaten. Tonight while changing her water she had a tiny bit of green mucous in her bin, I’m assuming she pooped this out ? Is that an indication of anything ?

Also I read 3-4 weeks should be max time in the fridge, is that correct? Or is she ok to stay in there since it seems like we may be making progress? Her size hasn’t really changed but her skin looks less tight so maybe some fluid came out I’m not sure.

 

[wolfen]

you would have to weigh her to find out if she has lost any fluid.
if you followed Axolotl Fridging Guide then it states that she can be fridged for as long as it takes for her to be getting better.
try offering her food if she will take it, don't worry if she doesn't fridging slows down the metabolism which will make her less hungry.
you should be able to get her weight quite easily by putting a tub of fresh clean dechlorinated water on some weighing scales then zeroing it, place her in the tub then weigh her, do this when you do a water change to monitor her.
you would have to research further concerning green stools, the only information I've found is that it is normal whilst fridging as it is bile being produced from the liver which shows that the liver is still functioning which is good.
I would be tempted to leave the tub out letting the water get warmer and see if she can be encouraged to eat, then monitor her for a week to see if she is loosing fluid or just weight lose due to food.

 

[DobbysMom]

you would have to weigh her to find out if she has lost any fluid.
if you followed Axolotl Fridging Guide then it states that she can be fridged for as long as it takes for her to be getting better.
try offering her food if she will take it, don't worry if she doesn't fridging slows down the metabolism which will make her less hungry.
you should be able to get her weight quite easily by putting a tub of fresh clean dechlorinated water on some weighing scales then zeroing it, place her in the tub then weigh her, do this when you do a water change to monitor her.
you would have to research further concerning green stools, the only information I've found is that it is normal whilst fridging as it is bile being produced from the liver which shows that the liver is still functioning which is good.
I would be tempted to leave the tub out letting the water get warmer and see if she can be encouraged to eat, then monitor her for a week to see if she is loosing fluid or just weight lose due to food.

I offered her some frozen brine shrimp & she went right for it, Still in the fridge

 

[DobbysMom]

Okay so Dobby is still in the fridge. She will eat frozen brine shrimp and frozen blood worms pretty regularly, but doesn’t poop very much. The salt solution doesn’t seem to have changed her size any, but she is definitely bigger between eating and pooping out what small bits she does get out. Maybe it’s more likely she is impacted with one of the large pebbles she came with in her original tank & she’s just really backed up ? Her fridge temps are a pretty consistent 6 degrees but it still takes her at least 1-2 weeks to poop after feeding. The poop in the picture is 10 days after eating two blocks of brine shrimp and one block of blood worms, I assume there should be more to expel? Any thoughts or suggestions on where to go from here ?

 

[Autistic Catholic]

I'm not much of an expert but isn't it if it's eating and pooping it's not impacted???

That is definitely fluid buildup.

 

[wolfen]

I've been trying to find more information on edema's and the treatment.
suffice to say there isn't much but there is some.
50% holtfreters is the main solution used in all adult axolotl water to provide basic salts and minerals, 100% holtfreters is for treatment of diseases and infections including mild edema, next for edema treatment is called ARS (amphibian ringers solution) this is similar to holfreters but at higher concentration, then after that there is ARS plus glucose for treatment of severe edema.
ARS is.. 6.6g salt per litre, 0.15g potassium chloride, 0.15g calcium chloride per litre, 0.2g bicarbonate of soda per litre.
the additional glucose is at 10g per litre.
the information for treatment can be found in Mader's Reptile and Amphibian Medicine and Surgery chapter 128 page 1219.
I also looked at cardiac lethal mutation but because they normally are affected from embryo and as stated is lethal this has been ruled out but there are two solution that are used for treatment of edema.. BSM (balanced salt medium) and SM (sucrose medium) both use high levels of salt for treatment and are added to 25% holtfreters solution.
although ARS and glucose may treat the condition the main concern may be re-occurrences, for this you may require veterinarian assistance.

 

[DobbysMom]

I've been trying to find more information on edema's and the treatment.
suffice to say there isn't much but there is some.
50% holtfreters is the main solution used in all adult axolotl water to provide basic salts and minerals, 100% holtfreters is for treatment of diseases and infections including mild edema, next for edema treatment is called ARS (amphibian ringers solution) this is similar to holfreters but at higher concentration, then after that there is ARS plus glucose for treatment of severe edema.
ARS is.. 6.6g salt per litre, 0.15g potassium chloride, 0.15g calcium chloride per litre, 0.2g bicarbonate of soda per litre.
the additional glucose is at 10g per litre.
the information for treatment can be found in Mader's Reptile and Amphibian Medicine and Surgery chapter 128 page 1219.
I also looked at cardiac lethal mutation but because they normally are affected from embryo and as stated is lethal this has been ruled out but there are two solution that are used for treatment of edema.. BSM (balanced salt medium) and SM (sucrose medium) both use high levels of salt for treatment and are added to 25% holtfreters solution.
although ARS and glucose may treat the condition the main concern may be re-occurrences, for this you may require veterinarian assistance.

I will try the ARS. Unfortunately no vets within an 8 hour radius will so much as look at her so it’s all trial and error here. I appreciate all the info !! I am able to get my hands on some KCL. For the glucose is regular table sugar okay ?

 

[wolfen]

sucrose ie sugar should be ok to use as it is a compound made from glucose and fructose although it will need to be fully dissolved.

 

[xxianxx]

This axolotl needs immediate vet care or euthanising. Whilst you guys are debating adding salts to the water its prob in pain, you guys can not fix this prob from an arm chair.

 

[wolfen]

This axolotl needs immediate vet care or euthanising. Whilst you guys are debating adding salts to the water its prob in pain, you guys can not fix this prob from an arm chair.

I fully agree, unfortunately as the poster has said there isn't any vets that will treat her within eight hours of travel, which would be like going from Wales to Scotland in the hopes that they can treat her.
unfortunately as well being an online forum the most any body can do is try to advise and hope for the best.
with this individual I have scoured through research papers and veterinary books in the hope of a cure but there is very little information and the poster may have to resign to the fact that euthanasia may be the most humane thing to do.

 

[Autistic Catholic]

This axolotl needs immediate vet care or euthanising. Whilst you guys are debating adding salts to the water its prob in pain, you guys can not fix this prob from an arm chair.

Euthanasia should always best be left up to the owner. Even though it's very likely the animal is beyond recovery without vet care, letting nature run its course is still as equally humane as euthanasia in my opinion.