Sorry to hear about the newt. For future reference, this sounds like far too much handling for any newt. I never pick them up unless absolutely necessary. It only stresses them.
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Noob: Help! I Can See Newt's Skull!!
- Thread starter Critter Mom
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Amphibiams do not have complex emotions. They never want to cuddle. At best they recognize you as a food source, not a living thing. CFBs do not even have great vision. It sounds like he was making a recovery and his death was very sudden... he may have been injured from handling. They are very small and fragile animals, something could have been snapped by mistake.
Azhael
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I totally agree with Jen, temperature is a very big issue.
Most probably, it had an important part in the newt becoming sick for starters. If you cannot provide the adequate and NECESSARY temps through the year for your newts you are going to have problems...
Heat weakens their health, it affects their inmune system, plus it promotes bacterial and fungal growth...the two things combined make a very bad situation.
I also agree, handling them is very unadvisable. These are not mammals...they don´t have social behaviour, and therefore direct contact is not only not necessary but contraproductive. Their skins ar weak, easily harmed, and very permeable...natural oils in human hands are enough to create stress for them.
I´m VERY sorry your newt died, but i at least hope you learned a lot from this experience...specially that adequate temps are an absolut MUST and that handling is no good....also that WC pet-shop animals are a very poor choice...:S
Most probably, it had an important part in the newt becoming sick for starters. If you cannot provide the adequate and NECESSARY temps through the year for your newts you are going to have problems...
Heat weakens their health, it affects their inmune system, plus it promotes bacterial and fungal growth...the two things combined make a very bad situation.
I also agree, handling them is very unadvisable. These are not mammals...they don´t have social behaviour, and therefore direct contact is not only not necessary but contraproductive. Their skins ar weak, easily harmed, and very permeable...natural oils in human hands are enough to create stress for them.
I´m VERY sorry your newt died, but i at least hope you learned a lot from this experience...specially that adequate temps are an absolut MUST and that handling is no good....also that WC pet-shop animals are a very poor choice...:S
vistajpdf
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I also thought this handling was a little extraordinary as I was told, I assume correctly for a change, that their skin was so delicate, it was best not to hold them. That, w/ the toxins issue, my fear of one being dropped, etc, the boys and I really never handle them. We used to remove them to a bowl to be fed, per the pet store (citing dirtying the water faster as the main reason), but I found they seemed afraid of this and wouldn't eat. So, I began feeding them in their tank, running the filter a couple of hours/day and we've been fine.
I think you have a unique bond w/ your pets and I like to believe I do as well. We are attached to them "differently", I suppose, but that doesn't mean necessarily that we love them more than those who take the down side well. Perhaps it would be wise to heed the advice of those more experienced and cease unnecessary handling. I think it worked for my family. I also don't hand feed them but just drop thawed bloodworms into the water - same place, same routine (turn off filter, turn on overhead light and they come like Pavlov's Dogs!) I see where people become "hobbyists" as they are fascinating to just observe! I like to watch them hunt for the bloodworms as they seem to pass over them, miss them, then eventually find them after awhile. It's oddly stressful to watch, but entertainingly suspenseful, too! I'd have to agree their sight isn't the keenest and wonder about their sense of smell as well after watching these near misses constantly when they search for food.
Anyway, don't take offense to the advice. We're new to this and you "parent" these little ones like you do the other pets under your care - w/ a lot of love, that's for sure!
Dana
I think you have a unique bond w/ your pets and I like to believe I do as well. We are attached to them "differently", I suppose, but that doesn't mean necessarily that we love them more than those who take the down side well. Perhaps it would be wise to heed the advice of those more experienced and cease unnecessary handling. I think it worked for my family. I also don't hand feed them but just drop thawed bloodworms into the water - same place, same routine (turn off filter, turn on overhead light and they come like Pavlov's Dogs!) I see where people become "hobbyists" as they are fascinating to just observe! I like to watch them hunt for the bloodworms as they seem to pass over them, miss them, then eventually find them after awhile. It's oddly stressful to watch, but entertainingly suspenseful, too! I'd have to agree their sight isn't the keenest and wonder about their sense of smell as well after watching these near misses constantly when they search for food.
Anyway, don't take offense to the advice. We're new to this and you "parent" these little ones like you do the other pets under your care - w/ a lot of love, that's for sure!
Dana
Critter Mom
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Thank you to everyone who has posted. I will take every post under consideration and under great advisement. I know I don't have all the answers. I greatly appreciate feedback.
I don't handle them every day. They do however seem to "beg" on the glass to come out when we are in the area and they can hear us, or wait at certain times at the front of the tank when they seem to "know" that my fiance' will be coming home at a certain time of day from work (usually just before lights out). I make a big deal out of it and say something silly that they seem to recognize that seems to stir them up and encourages this behavior. We swear they react to their individual names by independently looking up and doing different things. When I had green anoles, it was a similar situation that anyone who came over seemed to notice.
Other than dropping in gut-loaded crickets, I take them out every few days into their carry container with damp paper towel and put a clean Gatorade cap in there with a thawed blood worm cube. It had been thawed with a little dechlorinated water and has some powdered calcium added and mixed in. They like to be fed the worms on a toothpick and they go after them vigorously! Sometimes the more aggressive ones will have to be separated a bit as they will nip at the other newts if it is not their "turn". I have only had one or two of them show some mild interest in the worms in the cap, but they generally just stick their head in or around it and wait, or step through to walk someplace else. I will also hand feed them mealworms, otherwise they don't seem to notice them. Sometimes I use a long pair of tweezers, but with carpal tunnel, it is hard to hang onto the tweezers for long.
Other than at feeding time, I take them out for cleaning the tank, changing the water, or to "play" and run around and "explore" on the top of the bed comforter or sofa cushion sometimes. I am careful to not lose track of them, and to make sure no chemicals have been used recently. I have one newt in particular that seems partial to my t-shirt while I am wearing it. She is the one I got from a friend, and this one automatically climbed on my jacket the day I met her. She never exhibited this behavior with her previous people. She just shuts her eyes and goes to sleep like she often does in the tank, and that to me exhibits that she feels safe enough to do that, so I take it as a compliment.:happy:
You can believe what you want, that their brains are only the size of a pea and that they are not capable of emotions or any kind of recognition or higher thinking such as learning. I will believe otherwise. I know things. I am not clouded by, nor ruled by my emotions, and I can also see reality. We can all be right.
I don't handle them every day. They do however seem to "beg" on the glass to come out when we are in the area and they can hear us, or wait at certain times at the front of the tank when they seem to "know" that my fiance' will be coming home at a certain time of day from work (usually just before lights out). I make a big deal out of it and say something silly that they seem to recognize that seems to stir them up and encourages this behavior. We swear they react to their individual names by independently looking up and doing different things. When I had green anoles, it was a similar situation that anyone who came over seemed to notice.
Other than dropping in gut-loaded crickets, I take them out every few days into their carry container with damp paper towel and put a clean Gatorade cap in there with a thawed blood worm cube. It had been thawed with a little dechlorinated water and has some powdered calcium added and mixed in. They like to be fed the worms on a toothpick and they go after them vigorously! Sometimes the more aggressive ones will have to be separated a bit as they will nip at the other newts if it is not their "turn". I have only had one or two of them show some mild interest in the worms in the cap, but they generally just stick their head in or around it and wait, or step through to walk someplace else. I will also hand feed them mealworms, otherwise they don't seem to notice them. Sometimes I use a long pair of tweezers, but with carpal tunnel, it is hard to hang onto the tweezers for long.
Other than at feeding time, I take them out for cleaning the tank, changing the water, or to "play" and run around and "explore" on the top of the bed comforter or sofa cushion sometimes. I am careful to not lose track of them, and to make sure no chemicals have been used recently. I have one newt in particular that seems partial to my t-shirt while I am wearing it. She is the one I got from a friend, and this one automatically climbed on my jacket the day I met her. She never exhibited this behavior with her previous people. She just shuts her eyes and goes to sleep like she often does in the tank, and that to me exhibits that she feels safe enough to do that, so I take it as a compliment.:happy:
You can believe what you want, that their brains are only the size of a pea and that they are not capable of emotions or any kind of recognition or higher thinking such as learning. I will believe otherwise. I know things. I am not clouded by, nor ruled by my emotions, and I can also see reality. We can all be right.
Jake
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Chances are that the newt was trying to escape the water or tank (probably because of the temperature), not "begging" on the glass. It's possible for long term captive newts to be "conditioned" to come up to the glass in anticipation of food. Judging by the fact that yours was a recent import and in very poor condition, this was almost certainly not the case.
They can not "hear" you, they don't have ears.
The newts come out "usually just before lights out" because they are primarily nocturnal animals and night time is their normal time for activity. They probably aren't coming out because your husband gets home from work around then.
Their brains aren't the size of a pea...they're MUCH smaller in most cases.
Newts aren't don't have emotions, they are some of the most simple minded creatures I've seen, and I've seen a fair few to judge *but I say that with love*.
Azhael
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Amphibian behaviour has been rather well studied, and so have their brains. I know it´s not palatable to believe they are simple creatures with a very limited capacity, when you have them as pets and deeply care for them. And us humans are very good at not considering those ideas that are not palatable...
It really is all feeding behaviour though xD I´m sorry to insist i know you must be thinking i´m an idiot...but really all their behaviours can be perfectly explained by feeding instincts. Of course other options can be considered, and they have, scientifically, and have been discarded.
Anyway i think it´s great you think otherwise, because that way i´m sure you´ll do anything you can to provide the best care for your animals.
However i strongly advice you against any kind of handling. Taking them out and putting them on the bed or on your t-shirt is extremely stressing for them. What you see as climbing and cuddling is a desperate attempt to scape from a possible predator and finding water. We really are not just making this up...handling them is bad. They should only be handled when ABSOLUTELY necessary....and for as short as possible.
You shouldn´t take them out to feed them either. I know the instinct to pet them is strong but it´s only in your interest, not theirs. Amphibians are not puppies, they don´t need contact, they don´t benefit in anyway from it, and in fact it can be potentially dangerous for them because their skins are very easily harmed and are so permeable that even natural oils in our hands or the faintest traces of hand creams, soap, etc, can be absorved and cause problems.
What you describe about your newt closing it´s eyes and remaining still, sounds a lot like their typical defensive behaviour. This animals don´t run from predators, they don´t confront them....they just let their colours(which scream to the predator that they have toxins) defend them. They remain still, they close their eyes(because they need to protect them) and wait for the problem to go away. Usually they show other signs, like particular postures, ondulant movement of the tail, etc, but this don´t always happen. So what you see as cuddling and sleeping, is a defensive response to a very stressing situation.
I know you strongly disagree with my point of view, but we are only trying to help because we DO care for your newts
It really is all feeding behaviour though xD I´m sorry to insist i know you must be thinking i´m an idiot...but really all their behaviours can be perfectly explained by feeding instincts. Of course other options can be considered, and they have, scientifically, and have been discarded.
Anyway i think it´s great you think otherwise, because that way i´m sure you´ll do anything you can to provide the best care for your animals.
However i strongly advice you against any kind of handling. Taking them out and putting them on the bed or on your t-shirt is extremely stressing for them. What you see as climbing and cuddling is a desperate attempt to scape from a possible predator and finding water. We really are not just making this up...handling them is bad. They should only be handled when ABSOLUTELY necessary....and for as short as possible.
You shouldn´t take them out to feed them either. I know the instinct to pet them is strong but it´s only in your interest, not theirs. Amphibians are not puppies, they don´t need contact, they don´t benefit in anyway from it, and in fact it can be potentially dangerous for them because their skins are very easily harmed and are so permeable that even natural oils in our hands or the faintest traces of hand creams, soap, etc, can be absorved and cause problems.
What you describe about your newt closing it´s eyes and remaining still, sounds a lot like their typical defensive behaviour. This animals don´t run from predators, they don´t confront them....they just let their colours(which scream to the predator that they have toxins) defend them. They remain still, they close their eyes(because they need to protect them) and wait for the problem to go away. Usually they show other signs, like particular postures, ondulant movement of the tail, etc, but this don´t always happen. So what you see as cuddling and sleeping, is a defensive response to a very stressing situation.
I know you strongly disagree with my point of view, but we are only trying to help because we DO care for your newts
Critter Mom
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Ok, I am really looking at this with an open mind, and I am re-evaluating my stance on some situations I can look back on that were not necessarily me doing the right thing for the newts with the information I had at the time.
Everything that everyone has said makes sense, looking at it through other people's eyes. I am willing to do that. It is a bit of an awakening.
I am making efforts to keep the temperatures around a steady 72 degrees F. They are doing well. I don't see a lot of movement in there, except the crickets every now and then, but sometimes the newts change positions. Sometimes they seem to be in the same one for a day or so. They seem to be fine though. I suspect that the female might have been or might still be gravid, and she sleeps in there a lot, but if she laid eggs, I have not found them yet, or I accidentally flushed them away with a water change or two. I know she is not bloated. I have an area set up now with egg laying strips in it, but she seems too lazy to go there. None of them do. The water is deeper and they don't seem to like it that much. I know they eat very well when I take them out in the carry container to feed them their thawed blood worms with powdered calcium in the dechlorinated water using a toothpick. It would be a lot harder to attempt this in their tank right now.
The only mystery that is left to me is why I have had the one newt for a year now (the female one), after my friend had her for another year and she is so healthy after all this exposure to everything.
Another mystery is why my newts latest companions that I got at the pet store in February (sorry I didn't know about this site or about CB newts) climbed on my finger and had to be practically scraped off by another finger into the container I was purchasing them in which had soil in it. It seems that if my finger was harming them, they would have run away like the ones I didn't purchase did. These newts, including the female my friend gave me will voluntarily climb onto my finger and when I try to return them to the tank or whatever, they will make a U-turn to stay on my hand. Can someone explain this? The conditions in the tank are perfect according to all the care sheets and this site, so I don't think it is the tank. It is very well maintained and the temperature and humidity levels are correct and the pH is fine. Just wondering.
Everything that everyone has said makes sense, looking at it through other people's eyes. I am willing to do that. It is a bit of an awakening.
I am making efforts to keep the temperatures around a steady 72 degrees F. They are doing well. I don't see a lot of movement in there, except the crickets every now and then, but sometimes the newts change positions. Sometimes they seem to be in the same one for a day or so.
They seem to be fine though. I suspect that the female might have been or might still be gravid, and she sleeps in there a lot, but if she laid eggs, I have not found them yet, or I accidentally flushed them away with a water change or two. I know she is not bloated. I have an area set up now with egg laying strips in it, but she seems too lazy to go there. None of them do. The water is deeper and they don't seem to like it that much. I know they eat very well when I take them out in the carry container to feed them their thawed blood worms with powdered calcium in the dechlorinated water using a toothpick. It would be a lot harder to attempt this in their tank right now.The only mystery that is left to me is why I have had the one newt for a year now (the female one), after my friend had her for another year and she is so healthy after all this exposure to everything.
Another mystery is why my newts latest companions that I got at the pet store in February (sorry I didn't know about this site or about CB newts) climbed on my finger and had to be practically scraped off by another finger into the container I was purchasing them in which had soil in it. It seems that if my finger was harming them, they would have run away like the ones I didn't purchase did. These newts, including the female my friend gave me will voluntarily climb onto my finger and when I try to return them to the tank or whatever, they will make a U-turn to stay on my hand. Can someone explain this?
The conditions in the tank are perfect according to all the care sheets and this site, so I don't think it is the tank. It is very well maintained and the temperature and humidity levels are correct and the pH is fine. Just wondering.
Azhael
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Newts like any other animal vary in their resistance and their inmunity to different threats. Ones fall quickly..others survive.
When i was a kid i also had some newts try to climb up my finger. I thought "hey they must like me"....but then, some time after i realized the poor things were horribly stressed and desperately trying to get out(in fact they died). I think like many other animals, they see anything going up as an scape possibility, so wether it is your finger, a branch, a slope, or whatever, if they want to get out they´ll use it. That at least is my observation....
On a side note, i have to say that if your newts don´t seem to like the water you can assume there kight be something wrong. This newts are bound to love water! If they don´t...be suspicious. Also, it would be better if you fed them earthworms. Bloodworms are good food, but they are not complete and if offered as the base of the diet, it can cause some deficiencies....
When i was a kid i also had some newts try to climb up my finger. I thought "hey they must like me
"....but then, some time after i realized the poor things were horribly stressed and desperately trying to get out(in fact they died). I think like many other animals, they see anything going up as an scape possibility, so wether it is your finger, a branch, a slope, or whatever, if they want to get out they´ll use it. That at least is my observation....On a side note, i have to say that if your newts don´t seem to like the water you can assume there kight be something wrong. This newts are bound to love water! If they don´t...be suspicious. Also, it would be better if you fed them earthworms. Bloodworms are good food, but they are not complete and if offered as the base of the diet, it can cause some deficiencies....
Jake
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The reason for them staying out of the water could be the temperature. Whenever my basement gets up to the lower 70's a lot of my newts haul out onto their cork floats. If it's possible, try to keep them closer to the 60-65 degree range. Also, be sure to have plenty of plants just under surface for them to rest on.
Critter Mom
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Very good ideas! I guess we will have to try to convert to the 3/4 water to 1/4 land idea...and maybe this time put the plexiglass divider in *gulp* I was trying to avoid. I am not sure exactly how to do this. Before I had a turned over ceramic pot with a painted ceramic tree hiding place and they would crowd around this island all the time, along with the crickets. I also had floating plants they barely touched, and those cricket saver balls that the newts liked to crawl up on sometimes. They had an underwater ceramic hollow log with fake plants coming out of it that they visited occasionally. Sometimes they just liked to hang out on the filter top where it was flat at the water surface. There was really not much area to "hunt" prey, because the crickets would jump in the water and drown and then the newts would lose interest.
Or, I could just do it with a little more that they can come and float on in the water instead. I think the current might have been a little strong from the filter also, so I think they really didn't like that so much either. I have heard about a screen but I am not sure how to get one that would fit onto my model of filter. I know they would not like to get propelled across the tank even on low speed. It seemed to work best when the filter started getting clogged up and the current was slowed down.
What is really the best set-up that is easy to clean and maintain, that produces happy and healthy C. Orientalis' in a 10 gallon setup? I have tried the above and a live vivarium that did not work, and the setup I have now with hiding spots and shallow water and medium deep water they are not interested in....only interested in the 2 inches deep water.
When put in deeper water they have always acted like they were flailing around like I was drowning them most of the time. PH is fine. They stay in shallow water most of the time...2 inches deep. Why?
Or, I could just do it with a little more that they can come and float on in the water instead. I think the current might have been a little strong from the filter also, so I think they really didn't like that so much either. I have heard about a screen but I am not sure how to get one that would fit onto my model of filter.
I know they would not like to get propelled across the tank even on low speed. It seemed to work best when the filter started getting clogged up and the current was slowed down.What is really the best set-up that is easy to clean and maintain, that produces happy and healthy C. Orientalis' in a 10 gallon setup? I have tried the above and a live vivarium that did not work, and the setup I have now with hiding spots and shallow water and medium deep water they are not interested in....only interested in the 2 inches deep water.
When put in deeper water they have always acted like they were flailing around like I was drowning them most of the time. PH is fine. They stay in shallow water most of the time...2 inches deep. Why?