New Tylotritons Hitting U.S.

[ralf]

There's already been a similar discussion on this board concerning Triturus.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/cgi-bin/board-auth.cgi?file=/7/4745.html

Sergé, I agree. From the viewpoint of population dynamics, however it would still be better to collect eggs or larvae in the wild for the purpose of establishing breeding units.

Ralf

 

[david]

Hi Ralf. A quick update on the previous discussion on triturus you refered to. A few years ago I decided to make an effort to establish some breeding colonies of some different species and give people in the U.S. a choice of either buying wild caught animals or captive bred (up until now there really hasn't been much of a choice). I was able to get some female marmortus and esablished breeding of some other species as well using wild caught adults. As of this Fall I'll be selling some marmortus, montandoni, cristatus (I've sold some of these allready) and Tylototriton verucossus juvies. I guess this will be the acid test to see if people in the States want an alternative to wild caught animals. These animals are all captive born (next generation will be true captive bred). There are some other people here that are doing this as well.If all goes well, over the next few years, with the availabilty of CB animals, hopefully the demand for wild caughts will be significantly reduced. I'm still developing my breeding stock and will be adding some more types of animals as I go but it's a start. If some of the European keepers and breeders would like to assist in our efforts to get away from our dependency on wild caught animals, any tips on making our breeding programs more effective (let us pick your brains)will be greatly appreciated. With the experience the Europeans have and thanks to forums like this, we have a good start. I think this forum and ones like it will do far more to eventually protect many caudate species then any government's regulations or environmental groups. That's why I support this forum. Now to keep the recent imports of kweichows and shanjings from being a waste, any knowledge on breeding these species will be very helpful. If these animals aren't bred then I agree that these importations are a bad thing.

(Message edited by dln on July 11, 2004)

(Message edited by dln on July 11, 2004)

 

[david]

On the negative side, Jen currently has some beautiful, fully captive bred karlelinii juvies for sale, at a price that a retailer or wholesaler probably couldn't match and is getting no takers. These are great animals people. I know because I got some from her. If people in the United States want to say what they mean and mean what they say, they should buy these animals and try to start breeding programs of their own. Don't just be consumers. But if worse comes to worse and you don't breed them, at least you end up with some great animals and you didn't have to deplete populations in the wild. I'm really usually not this much of a serious guy, I don't know what's come over me. It must be a bit of Mike G

 

[joseph]

I think the main turnoff on karelini and other cool sallies is that you have to keep em, well, Cool....LOL

I would bite, but they would probably just end up dying once summer came through.

 

[paris]

the point to make about 'demand' by the public for wc animals is that we are a severe minority. the majority of buyers are the spontaneous buyer at the petshop who sees it and thinks its cute. a wc adult is large enough and less delicate and so easier to feed and sell before it dies. so to the shop owners its not an issue-as long as they have sold the 100$+ worth of equipment that goes with it -once it dies they will be back for more. dealers are often looking for something unusual to spark the interest of their regulars. on animals that are cb -lets say turtles and snakes -i dont believe they sell well until the wc sources are stopped from supplying -it costs a whole lot less to a supplier to get these and mark them up enough to get a good price. you know i have heard about pet city (this is from an ex employee) deliberately under feeding the dogs (and im sure other animals) so that people will feel sorry for them and 'save' them from their current condition by buying them. i know many of us have fallen into the same trap -buying a newt/sal or even lizard or frog from a shop cause you know they will probably kill it. i am currently resisting the temptation to buy a blackbelly sal that my local has had-amazingly-alive for 2 weeks -on just wet bark with water that occasionally dries out, with dead bodies in there and at room temp. since i dont know where it is from - i dont want it to add to my small colony (3!) also it has been exposed to alot of stuff-the tank is mostly used for orientalis- so if i get it and even quarentine it for 2 months -it can still pose a risk to my group as nasty things often outlast the quarentine time.

 

[david]

Any of the Europeans want to weigh in on this?