New Tylotritons Hitting U.S.

[david]

These are starting to hit the market. The first 2 photos are kweichowensis and the second 2 are shanjing.

 

[david]

These are probably wild caughts and definitely not a beginners newt. They're allready being sold on one web site and will probably be on more. Hopefully whoever buys them will make an attempt at establishing breeding programs. If not, I think it's kind of a waste.

 

[clarence]

what kind of moss are they standing on/in

 

[david]

I'm not sure. It's just what they were packed in

 

[paris]

very very few hynobius mike-they only got 7 of 2 types, 5 of one and 2 of the cloudeds...i got enough for a colony of both types of tylos but ill have to admit the kweichows are better looking and acting-the shanjings are the ones i am worried about. they have sold out of the kweichows but have some shanjings left.

 

[joseph]

I thought the jings were commonly imported? Am I wrong?

 

[foster]

I ordered 7 of the jings and they arrived today in generally good appearance. A few have a sore or 2 around the snout but I have seen worse. They are separated into 3 enclosures for quarantine (I plan on making this 7 individual quarantine enclosures this weekend). 4 of the 7 ate crickets and pre-soaked reptomin shortly after arrival. The service at Underground Reptiles was quick and efficient (my first time dealing with them). I tried to order 4 of the kweichowensis today however Greg said that they are a little sluggish and he is holding them for the time being. In addition, I spoke to Carolina Specialty Exotics and they said that they are expecting a caudate shipment from Asia in soon.
Chip Reves

 

[jennifer]

Joseph, T. shanjing are commonly imported compared to most caudates. But they are imported intermittently. Most of the time they are impossible to find, but when they are imported, they show up all over the place. The kweichow are quite uncommon.

 

[sergé]

Must say that they don't really look healthy...the shanjings were recently imported overhere through France (was told by the trader), but they looked a bit more healthy than these shanjings. Kweichowensis was said to be imported as well, but only on request...

 

[david]

You're right to worry about the shanjings Paris. I recieved a dozen shanjings and 4 dozen kweichows yesterday for a group buy through a wholesaler and 1 shanjing was DOA and 2 more died overnight. The kweichows do look better and there are no losses so far. Hopefully the shanjing will stabalize now. I'm sure whatever shanjing or kweichows that show up here in the U.S. are ultimately from the same source and shipment.

 

[david]

As far as Hynobius species go, Tokyoensis, nigrescens, nebulosus, and dunni are in country right now. Also Onychodactylus japonicus. It's an "Asian Invasion"

 

[jennifer]

The shanjing in the photos don't look good, Dave. Their skin is too shiny, which is a bad sign. I've seen them recover from that, so some may be OK. Good luck!

 

[john]

I have to go with Jen on that - those shanjings don't look very promising health-wise. The kweichowensis are in much better condition but they don't look 100% either. Watch them for sores and be ready to medicate. If you can get them all to eat, it might be worth getting a little flagyl into their diet for a week or so too because these guys are always full of gut parasites when freshly imported.

 

[juraj]

Wow to lol !

I think nobody from us doesn`t want to see rare animals to be sacked from their habitats but we are keen on paying for them.

 

[sergé]

Well, that's the point. We seem to care too much for them, thinking we can save them, buy them and then they die. The trader, on the other hand, has earned his money and thinks, wow, those went really well, let's get some more.

...a better environment starts with yourself, is a dutch commercial from the ministry of environment. And I think they are right, we should be the ones not wanting this.
Not only should we be the ones asking for captive bred animals, but also should we complain about the bad state.
If animals are in bad condition, just let them die and hope the traders will never import bad animals again. They should be the ones complaining about the condition of the product they are selling (and have bought), but then we have to start complaining in stead of buying.
I would rather pay more for a healthy animal then less for 5 nearly dead ones...

And then I didn't even start the discussion if we should be wanting these wild caught animals. We are helping them to die out...and we pay for it as well.
From my personal opinion I would much rather see some specialist getting animals from the wild to start a breeding group and the rest should have patience until they are bred. And if this does not work, well, then not. Why should we be able to keep all species?
I think I will start to step on some toes now...

 

[francesco]

quite right Sergè

 

[jennifer]

While I agree with you Serge, I would also point out that all the captive-bred populations we now have started out from wild-caught animals.

One problem is that there are not enough "specialists" starting breeding groups. Unless hobbyists do so, nobody will. Also, the "specialists" (zoos and wildlife centers) never release any CB offspring to "ordinary" people like you and me. At least these things are true here in the US.

I personally avoid buying WC animals, as much as possible. However, if ones come available that are easy to breed and fit my tastes, I might buy them.

I am somewhat of a pessimist about captive breeding of caudates in the US. I'll be very surprised if, in the long run, any CB animals come from the shanjing and kweichows now being imported. People are buying them with the best of intentions, but I know there is a huge gap between good intentions and the actual distribution of CB offspring.

 

[paris]

im going to the vet right now mike-i will let you guys know how these animals fare up with a vet check. the only ones i have that are in good health are the kweichows-and 1 hynobid. the shanjings are ok but will need some tlc and will not breed this year. the rest of the hynobids are going to need constant care and meds for at least a month (meds=10 days probably-extra care=1 month). i thought that dealing with an individual retailer i would get the best pick of the animals. ill post pics later for you all to see and judge. im off to the vet now.

 

[paris]

i wish we had that good a realtionship-but my vet and i only know each other through the animals. you ready for this?-total cost for the vet visit-169.75 $$. the newts were dont in bulk -and they were 'additional' exotic office call-exotics are always more expensive...sigh....so she billed me for 3 'groups' of newts-that was 75$ and the batryl -2 vials worth-was 25$...i wish i had an easy supply for that stuff.....my cat only cost 29$ and the geckos were the first seen -so with their meds it came to 40.75$.... so i got a deal to have all the newts bunched together in 3 groups-i wanted her to see them all though and make sure there wasnt some other thing to do to help-she does say flagyl is further down the line after they pick up weight-but hopefully from all of this it will result in some healthy captive bred offspring in a year or so.....i will post pics in another section.

 

[sergé]

I didn't mean that WC should be forbidden, I just think that a small group well taken care of animals for us, for the trader, and not least of all for wild populations and the individual animals itself, would be much better. But it's all about money isn't it, because then prices would be much higher, but on the other hand, now we pay for vets, for dead or nearly dead animals...
WC on a small scale (two or three breeding groups) is also not harmful for populations, but the way it is going now is terrible for us, for the animals, for natural populations, except for the traders...we should get rid of them and do it all ourselves.