New to sallys and have a palm one!

[jennifer]

My opinion: Buying a wild-caught animal to "save it" is never the right thing to do. If people do that, it just means more animals being raped from the wilderness for the pet trade.

Jenny, I would encourage you to get as much information as possible from Ed K. Unlike the pet shop guy, Ed actually knows how to keep these sals alive for more than a few days.

 

[william]

well if they are from the same batch as pollywog is talking about then maybe there is a faint glimmer of hope for them?

Jen: it is a no win situation really

 

[shaun]

No win? If people stop buying salamanders that are rarely on the market, wholesalers will refrain from stocking them, and leave them in the wild where they'll last more than a few days.

 

[kaysie]

Jenny, if you feel like throwing your money away, feel free to send it to me. I've still got college classes to pay for.

If it took Ed K. 'a couple of batches' before he figured out how to keep them alive, do you honestly think you're going to keep them? Do you even known temperature requirements? feeding? are you letting them hang off your finger?? You say you know 'enough to keep them going for a couple of days', this is SHITTY <font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font> EXCUSE! I dont give a damn what anyone says, but you're a bad keeper. A species like this, which is so sensitive, and you say "well i can keep them going for a few days." They're not going to last more than a few days. Don't you get that?

Also: i'm concerned with you keeping 7 axies in a 4.5 foot tank. That's kind of small.

You dont even know WHY bolitoglossids have a nil life expectancy. They're ripped out of their wild habitat, shipped all across the world in really cruddy conditions, undergo massive amounts of stress and die from it.

Now, you said you didnt buy these animals because they're rare, and you would have bought a fire or tiger sal because they're cuter. then why DID you buy these animals?

 

[benjamin]

Why would you buy something that you didn't care whether it lived or died unless you were a butcher? Cuter? Hang on your finger? If you want something cute and cuddly get a rabbit!

 

[jenny]

because i still think these are cute but if i had a choice then i wuda chose tigers.

someone said they wil most prob die anyways i said fine if they die but it wont be because i am not looking after them properly for example in a tank just with water so they cant climb out.

and i said i know a bit about them in general i.e feeding housing etc and i bought a book today and have a better one on order and have spent a few hours looking on the net even though there isnt much and i still havent learnt anything.

and shaun...you want people to stop buying them so they stop selling them....what animals do you own?

 

[edward]

Hi Kaysie,
I deleted the expliative.

For those who are interested, all of the newly imported Bolitoglossa necropsies that I have seen or read, all of the animal followed the same pattern of death. They would feed readily (and I admit the shooting of the tongue to nab a food item is really cool) but after a period of time usually less than a month, the tail is dropped and death typically follows within 48 hours (although I did get one to survive for two weeks when we realized that the probably cause of death was refeeding syndrome by tube feeding it daily.)
The reason for this is that the animals are held for long periods of time until sufficient numbers are caught to be shipped out to the pet trade. In general Bolitoglossids are not necessarily rare but are extremely difficult to find so this take quite awhile. In the mean time the salamanders are not fed and are using up their fat reserves. By the time they come into the country, they typically have no fat reserves left, are stressed so the metabolism is running more quickly and the animal has begun to scavenge cellular contents to maintain life. At one of the feedings the circulating blood ions are insufficient to support transport of nutrients over the cell membranes and the animal dies. This is why small meals are necessary as the imbalance between cellular contents and circulating needs needs to be restored to stabilize the animal.

Ed

 

[jenny]

and i apologise kim...twas kaysie who i said i couldnt look after them. and...kaysie....i have the peter scott axolotl book and have researched loads about them. and 4.5-5ft tank is big enough and is 20 inches wide! at the mo there are only 5 which are only 6 inches long at the most and 3 of them have been that size for ages without growing and they *are* fine and have plenty of room! and if they ge bigger and *i* feel they need more room i will buy them a bigger tank!

 

[jenny]

and if you hadnt realised kaysie i have already bought them so wha is the point in telling me that someone else hasnt been able to keep them. trying to make me feel bad isnt gonna work if done by you.

and what difference does it make anyways because obviously the sals dieing isnt through any fault of my own! but we'll just see what happens with them.

 

[benjamin]

Did you just realize the advice Ed gave you about feeding them small amounts? He didn't exactly say it wouldn't be your fault if they died, you now have the option to attempt to turn around a cycle that was started by the trader. If you don't chose to try and heed by the small amount feeding advice, then as far as I'm concerned it is your fault if they die! Why spend so much time attacking others (Kaysie and Shaun) when you could be listening to words of wisdom from Ed.

 

[shaun]

"and shaun...you want people to stop buying them so they stop selling them....what animals do you own?"

I was just going into detail on Jen's comment about leaving animals in the pet stores instead of "rescuing" them. I keep three species, but I never consider getting more wild caught animals unless I'm able to try to establish a breeding group.

"and what difference does it make anyways because obviously the sals dieing isnt through any fault of my own!"

It will be your fault if they die because you chose to buy them without learning something about them. If you had consulted these forums, or asked around you would have known that they do poorly in captivity, and that buying them would only establish a market for them and lead to more deaths.

 

[kaysie]

Jenny, You must have this magical tank that grows every time you post about it. First it was 18", now its 20? It doesnt matter what you THINK they need. It's about what they NEED.

Either way, I still think you're cruel. You dont care if they die. Why did you even buy them if you wanted something else?

Nevermind, you're not worth my time. You dont take anyone's advice, so why should I bother trying to instill some sense into you?

 

[joseph]

What I find is interesting is that you apparently haven't replied to Ed's comments as I'm sure he has more info on this species. While impulse buys may be tempting, they always work out against the animals. Just because you read a couple of books and whatnot doesn't mean that the animals will live. They don't read books, and authors often don't have up to date info(or correct info for that matter).

I always do research and look around for people who have kept the animals for at least a month or so(usually much more) and would never even consider buying something that I didn't know what it was off the spot. I strive to give my animals the best possible environs possible so that perhaps they may reward me and thrive(and perhaps reproduce). I hope you will do the same.

Now that you have these guys, you might as well take Ed's info and see if perhaps you can get them to survive. The odds are against you however.

 

[nate]

Yes, I'm locking this thread. Please do not open it again in another thread. Jenny, you're more than welcome to ask Ed questions about his Bolitoglossa knowledge, if you're interested, in the Plethodontid forum.