New tank cycling

[Noodlesmom]

I have been tryin to cycle a tank for the past two maybe more months. I’ve been trying to follow this guide and for the first month the levels seemed to be doing what it was supposed to do where ammonia and nitrite spike and as they decrease the nitrate spikes. Eventually it’s supposed to go level out to normal levels. Well when it started looking like it was leveling out the nitrite levels spiked up again and have been going in this cycle of lowering and then spiking again for the past month and a half. After talking with my local fish store where I got my axolotl they told me to frequently add nitrifying bacteria at least 2-3 times a week which I wasn’t doing before they told me and didn’t even know I had to. However, even after following their instructions my levels are still all over the place. I’m starting to get to the point where I want to start the whole thing from the beginning but I want to see if maybe I can save all the work I’ve been doing for the past two months. Please help.

 

[HayleyStar7]

Hi, I am still new to this myself and hopefully others with more knowledge can reply also, but we are 1 week into our first tank cycling and I’ve been doing lots of reading up on this.

My understanding is that adding bacteria is optional for cycling a tank and can speed up the process but is not essential.

What is the pH? If it drops below 7 the cycle can stall so you would need to slowly add some sodium bicarbonate to bring it up to above 7.

Also, have you been doing water changes? It’s better to not do any water changes unless the nitrates get above 110ppm.

Increase water temp a bit if you can and add an airstone to ensure the water is well aerated - the bacteria need this!

 

[Noodlesmom]

Hi, I am still new to this myself and hopefully others with more knowledge can reply also, but we are 1 week into our first tank cycling and I’ve been doing lots of reading up on this.

My understanding is that adding bacteria is optional for cycling a tank and can speed up the process but is not essential.

What is the pH? If it drops below 7 the cycle can stall so you would need to slowly add some sodium bicarbonate to bring it up to above 7.

Also, have you been doing water changes? It’s better to not do any water changes unless the nitrates get above 110ppm.

Increase water temp a bit if you can and add an airstone to ensure the water is well aerated - the bacteria need this!

My ph drops a lot but I read to add baking Soda which is what I’ve been doing every time it drops. I think I’m gonna get a heater for the tank. I don’t have one but it’s probably best to get one. I’ll also get an air stone. I have one already in my tank my axolotl is in now but I’ll get another one for this tank. Do you think it’s a good idea to just start from scratch?

 

[wolfen]

if the filter isn't big enough to hold the bacteria that remove the ammonia and nitrites you will have spikes.

 

[Noodlesmom]

if the filter isn't big enough to hold the bacteria that remove the ammonia and nitrites you will have spikes.

It’s a size Medium. It said it supported 20
Gallons which is what the tank is.

 

[wolfen]

It’s a size Medium. It said it supported 20
Gallons which is what the tank is.

filter companies are a pain in the neck, they should have two tank sizes on a filter, the lower number which would be a bare bones axolotl tank and high number is for a high substrate etc aquarium, unless the lower number is higher than the tank size it can be assumed that it is to small, If it only has one number then it has to be halved at least.
when a filter states that it will go up to a certain size it will rely upon the substrate etc.. to handle the bacteria colony whilst the filter deals with the muck.
on a three stage filter you can remove any chemical filtration and increase the biological filtration to increase the bacteria colony, it isn't advised not to remove mechanical filtration as it will cause debris to cloud the water, although because most mechanical filtration are sponges they do get colonised by bacteria as well.
ammonia spikes can be caused by low ph but nitrite spikes are normally caused by filtration although can be caused by water changes that aren't thoroughly dechlorinated.

 

[HayleyStar7]

We didn’t set our tank up properly and ended up with water quality issues and a sick axolotl. It’s being tubbed at the moment while we start from scratch with our cycling but I’ve opted to have two filters in the tank to ensure we have enough to keep up with waste being produced. Have kept the original sponge filter and bought a new in-tank filter with a bio filter. Will also use an airstone when axie is back in the tank. We don’t have any substrate so I’ve added a couple of rounded lava rocks which are more porous than normal rocks and can help support the bacteria colonies. Also some pieces of slate but not sure if these have the same effect.

Also, not sure how high your nitrite spikes have been getting but I did read that above 5ppm can kill off the bacteria which would reduce the cycling capacity. If they are going above this level maybe reduce the amount of ammonia being added to 3 or even 2 ppm if you haven’t already? @wolfen is probably better able to advise on this though. We could be in the same position in a few weeks with our tank!

 

[Noodlesmom]

filter companies are a pain in the neck, they should have two tank sizes on a filter, the lower number which would be a bare bones axolotl tank and high number is for a high substrate etc aquarium, unless the lower number is higher than the tank size it can be assumed that it is to small, If it only has one number then it has to be halved at least.
when a filter states that it will go up to a certain size it will rely upon the substrate etc.. to handle the bacteria colony whilst the filter deals with the muck.
on a three stage filter you can remove any chemical filtration and increase the biological filtration to increase the bacteria colony, it isn't advised not to remove mechanical filtration as it will cause debris to cloud the water, although because most mechanical filtration are sponges they do get colonised by bacteria as well.
ammonia spikes can be caused by low ph but nitrite spikes are normally caused by filtration although can be caused by water changes that aren't thoroughly dechlorinated.

This is the filter I have in there right now. Should I consider getting a stronger one or a second one? I had a discussion with another person who works in the fish area and he told me to stop dosing my ammonia every day and to let it just drop naturally and let the other levels go along with the dropping ammonia. I also have a heater in the tank now and have to regularly keep up with putting baking soda in to keep pH up. I ordered another airstone to put in there. He also told me to put some of my tank water that my axolotls in now, into the new cycling tank to add cycled bacteria. I’m really really hoping this helps and works.

 

[wolfen]

fit a secondary filter as replacing the first one will put you back to square one because the filter itself will have beneficial bacteria in it, reducing ammonia is just as good as saying that the filter can't cope with the levels.
what is the ph for the tap water before it is added.
what are the nitrates at? as the nitrates rise it will cause a ph drop, in hard water the ph is buffered so the movement isn't really noticeable, but in soft water the drop can be drastic.
look up about using holtfreters or a modified solution in the tank as it will add necessary salts and minerals to the water to promote health in a axolotls and also buffer the water levels, info here Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity.
try to get a kh gh test kit to test the hardness of the water, if the water isn't hard enough it wont buffer the ph and you will get ph swings, the bicarbonate of soda increases the kh to help bring the ph up and steady/buffer it.
putting limestone rock in the tank will leach calcium carbonate which will help increase kh gh and there help steady the ph.

 

[Noodlesmom]

fit a secondary filter as replacing the first one will put you back to square one because the filter itself will have beneficial bacteria in it, reducing ammonia is just as good as saying that the filter can't cope with the levels.
what is the ph for the tap water before it is added.
what are the nitrates at? as the nitrates rise it will cause a ph drop, in hard water the ph is buffered so the movement isn't really noticeable, but in soft water the drop can be drastic.
look up about using holtfreters or a modified solution in the tank as it will add necessary salts and minerals to the water to promote health in a axolotls and also buffer the water levels, info here Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity.
try to get a kh gh test kit to test the hardness of the water, if the water isn't hard enough it wont buffer the ph and you will get ph swings, the bicarbonate of soda increases the kh to help bring the ph up and steady/buffer it.
putting limestone rock in the tank will leach calcium carbonate which will help increase kh gh and there help steady the ph.

I’m not sure about hardness of my water. I’ll get kits for that. My nitrates right now are at 80ppm. The guy said that me dosing the ammonia constantly is not allowing the bacteria to eat it fast enough. So he said let it drop to 0 and then dose a little. I’ll also get a limestone as well.

 

[Noodlesmom]

I’m not sure about hardness of my water. I’ll get kits for that. My nitrates right now are at 80ppm. The guy said that me dosing the ammonia constantly is not allowing the bacteria to eat it fast enough. So he said let it drop to 0 and then dose a little. I’ll also get a limestone as well.

Also would you know if using different dechlorinations like prime, API, etc. is bad. Like if I’ve been using prime for my tanks but want to start using API would that be bad?

 

[wolfen]

Also would you know if using different dechlorinations like prime, API, etc. is bad. Like if I’ve been using prime for my tanks but want to start using API would that be bad?

I just put 1.25 ml of sodium thiosulfate crystals into every 25 litre tap water as its cheaper and doesn't do anything but dechlorinate the water, most bottle water conditioners either contain sodium thiosulfate or similar chemicals that do the same thing, api use sodium thiosulfate for the chlorine and edta tetrasodium salt for heavy metals such as copper.
api is safe to use although as with any water containing a axolotl I would always recommend using either holtfreters solution or a modified version. info here Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity
don't use any stress coat products as they can affect the axolotls skin and gills, in particular any with aloe vera.
it's alright saying not to keep dosing the water with ammonia but once a animal is in the water the bacteria need to keep up as you can't get it to stop producing waste.

 

[Noodlesmom]

I just put 1.25 ml of sodium thiosulfate crystals into every 25 litre tap water as its cheaper and doesn't do anything but dechlorinate the water, most bottle water conditioners either contain sodium thiosulfate or similar chemicals that do the same thing, api use sodium thiosulfate for the chlorine and edta tetrasodium salt for heavy metals such as copper.
api is safe to use although as with any water containing a axolotl I would always recommend using either holtfreters solution or a modified version. info here Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity
don't use any stress coat products as they can affect the axolotls skin and gills, in particular any with aloe vera.
it's alright saying not to keep dosing the water with ammonia but once a animal is in the water the bacteria need to keep up as you can't get it to stop producing waste.

So I tested my GH which was 179 and KH which was 89.9, both which I read are decent levels to have. My alkalinity was between 0-40. I bought alkaline buffer to help with my ph and I also bought a solution that raises carbonate hardness KH. I added both the buffer and KH solution and tomorrow I’ll see how it does for my levels. I’m also going to be putting in an airstone for that tank tomorrow as well. The heater is warming the water so I’m hoping that also helps with speeding up the process a little bit. Thankfully my tap water is already a decent level of hardness so while I didn’t know about hardness this whole time, it was actually a decent level.

 

[wolfen]

if you go to Water Quality Explained: How It Can Affect Your Axolotl's Health - WSAVA 2015 Congress - VIN it has ideal and tolerant levels for axolotls.
If your axolotl is suspected as having fungus add 2g per litre marine salt into any water that contains a axolotl.

 

[Noodlesmom]

if you go to Water Quality Explained: How It Can Affect Your Axolotl's Health - WSAVA 2015 Congress - VIN it has ideal and tolerant levels for axolotls.
If your axolotl is suspected as having fungus add 2g per litre marine salt into any water that contains a axolotl.

Will this hurt him? Also I have aquarium salt. He looks like he has a fungus one minute and then the next he doesn’t. The fungus doesn’t look like the picture I’ve seen. He’s got like white patches in his actual hill stalks and from those white patches it looks at first like fungus but a closer look, it looks like he has a thousand little gills growing from that place. I can move him from one area to the next and it’s like I don’t see the fungus anymore. If I put the salt in the tank and let’s say he doesn’t have the fungus is it going to harm him maybe even kill him? Should regularly putting the salt in his tank normal or only when I think he’s got something? I attached pictures of what I’m seeing, the quality is really bad but it’s the best I can do. This has been making me consider if I would buy live plants for his new tank to prevent this from happening again.

 

[wolfen]

Will this hurt him? Also I have aquarium salt. He looks like he has a fungus one minute and then the next he doesn’t. The fungus doesn’t look like the picture I’ve seen. He’s got like white patches in his actual hill stalks and from those white patches it looks at first like fungus but a closer look, it looks like he has a thousand little gills growing from that place. I can move him from one area to the next and it’s like I don’t see the fungus anymore. If I put the salt in the tank and let’s say he doesn’t have the fungus is it going to harm him maybe even kill him? Should regularly putting the salt in his tank normal or only when I think he’s got something? I attached pictures of what I’m seeing, the quality is really bad but it’s the best I can do. This has been making me consider if I would buy live plants for his new tank to prevent this from happening again.

axolotls come from a slight brackish high mineral environment and aren't a fully freshwater animal, although the majority of axolotls will be quite happy and live a long healthy life in freshwater some will become susceptible to fungus/infections/anaemia and also possibly bloating.
it is the reason I always ask people to look up holtfreters so that they can make sure that they are providing the required salts and minerals to keep them happy and healthy.

 

[Noodlesmom]

axolotls come from a slight brackish high mineral environment and aren't a fully freshwater animal, although the majority of axolotls will be quite happy and live a long healthy life in freshwater some will become susceptible to fungus/infections/anaemia and also possibly bloating.
it is the reason I always ask people to look up holtfreters so that they can make sure that they are providing the required salts and minerals to keep them happy and healthy.

Okay, I’ll do some research on holtfreters and definitely start doing it in the tank. As for now though should I just give him salt baths? Or just go straight to the holtfreters?

 

[Noodlesmom]

Okay, I’ll do some research on holtfreters and definitely start doing it in the tank. As for now though should I just give him salt baths? Or just go straight to the holtfreters?

And are you constantly adding the holtfreters solution like once a week to the tank or only when they’re not doing so good?

 

[wolfen]

I always use it when ever I do a water change.

 

[wolfen]

Okay, I’ll do some research on holtfreters and definitely start doing it in the tank. As for now though should I just give him salt baths? Or just go straight to the holtfreters?

be better just to start using holtfreters solution or a modified version, john's solution is quite a popular one as it is easier to get hold of and use.