New hongkongensis? Help please

[troutnerd]

Hello folks:

So I went to buy an aquarium bulb today and left with two of what I think are hongkongensis. Not 100 or cent sure,but they look like the ones I had a few years back. The shop was calling them crocodile newts..but alas, they were distinctly paramesotriton. One had half a tail,but both are in pretty reasonable health and immediately ate worms I gave them. Hopefully they don't have any pet store plagues. Anyway, they are in a quarantine tank and look pretty good so far.

Any comments or ID corrections more than welcome.

Gord

p.s .The shop also had a load of what were the fattest, healthiest looking firebellies I've ever seen in a pet store. I was amazed. They also had the two newt species in two different tanks!

 

[Yahilles]

At least i'm sure that these two animals are both Paramesotriton chinensis, it's visible by the head shape, ventral and dorsal coloration.
Doesn't the half-tail animal have problems with swimming for air? Looks very much like it is unable to swim at all.

 

[eljorgo]

Im with Janusz they are surely chinensis. even without enlarge the pics their patterns jump into your eyes. After enlarging them there is not doubt they are surely P. chinensis.
cheers,

 

[troutnerd]

Chinensis! A new species to me.Hope I have a pair.Time to do some homework.

The short tail does not seem to be a major problem so far. That newt is by far the most active of the two. .

 

[FrogEyes]

They are indeed P.chinensis - at least at a glance. Several species are similar at a glance, but the North American pet trade is dominated by wild-caught newts originating in or near Shanghai and supplied through the aquarium fish trade: P.chinensis, P.granulosus, and H.orientalis. Most other Chinese species occur closer to Hong Kong than to Shanghai, and are mostly available from reptile dealers rather than fish dealers, which means much less often and in much smaller numbers.

 

[troutnerd]

Thanks for the info.

That's interesting..as these newts came in with a load of geckos and sliders. This shop is the only one in my city that ever has newts..and I often miss them as I'm not a regular in pet stores. I obtained juvenile hongkongenis here about 6 years ago..and they've had C. orientalis from time to time.

Apparently their last shipment was all bought in one day.

 

[FrogEyes]

There is a network of dealers. Smaller stores tend to buy more from local or regional wholesalers, who in turn buy from multiple other importer/wholesalers, who have in turn bought from collectors, breeders, or foreign exporters. If I were to deliver P.chinensis to a store tomorrow or next week, it would likely have passed through the following sequence:
Chinese collector ==> Chinese fish dealer ==> California trans-shipper/wholesaler ==> Calgary wholesaler/retailer ==> small town retailer

At every step except the first [a collector might actually pay local kids to catch things too], the business will typically be buying from many sources.

In short, the animals you listed most likely came from at least two and probably three separate major sources, and were routed through a smaller wholesaler before reaching TB.

 

[troutnerd]

Amazing.Didn't realize Calgary was one of the hubs of the pet trade!

 

[FrogEyes]

I wouldn't say that it is, but this IS the second-largest country on the planet. If all the little stores depended on suppliers which are 2000-6000 kilometers away, it wouldn't be economical to have much for livestock. Either they'd have to order many animals they can't sell, in order to make the minimum order and justify shipping costs, or they can pay a bit more to someone closer who CAN justify the volume. In any case, there are several regional wholesalers who stock some variety of herps, but only one who deals in decent volume. I know of none in the province who actually bring herps in from countries other than USA, though I hope to be doing so myself this year on a small scale.

 

[troutnerd]

Just an update.The largest of the two came down with a terrible case of sores and perished about 2 weeks after I got them.I tried everything to cure it but it was no use.Sad. The one with the short tail is thriving and regrowing its tail.

 

[micstarz]

It's very unlikely that they are P. hongkongensis - most Paramesotrition newts would have come from mainland China, where there is less legal protection over their collection. Any newts sold as hongkongensis would come clearly marked as such and with a pricier tag...probably.

 

[FrogEyes]

P.hongkongensis has a fairly broad distribution in Guangdong, and does appear in the pet trade at the same low prices. However, the pet trade in North America is dominated by newts apparently shipped from Shanghai, which limits selection to the three species found near there. On the rare occasion one gets a shipment by way of Hong Kong, the possibilities are much more broad, since nearly all other Chinese newts have small ranges scattered more or less from Hong Kong west. In any case, P.hongkongensis is easily differentiated at a glance from the P.chinensis in this thread.

 

[micstarz]

Oh. I was always under the impression that hongkongensis was endemic to HK. Bah well I'm wrong!