Need knowledge about mixing species

[Autumncrossing]

http://www.frogforum.net/content/pacific-chorus-frog-127/

Please pay particular attention to the bottom section labeled "final notes"

You have already put your salamanders in danger by exposing them to the Chytrid fungus.

 

[Redear]

For me it’s all about tone. "leopard geckos have different requirements than salamanders..." is much different than, "No way in a thousand hells.." or whatever was said. I do feel bad for those new to the hobby trying to receive advice here. They are often brutalized. It’s certainly disheartening all the abuse and misinformation out there regarding care. But I agree with NewtB that harsh tones can turn people with good intentions away from the hobby. It’s not about honey coating anything. It’s about not being disrespectful. If someone is wrong about something just tell them. You don't need to roast them. I have always thought, the way people treat other people reflects on how they feel about themselves.

 

[Azhael]

I can understand that, but for me valuing tone over content is immature and ridiculous and expecting people to not have an emotional reaction when you show that you are neglectful towards animals in an animal enthusiast forum is not at all reasonable.
I'll admit that i've been growing more and more tired of having to be nice and tactful towards people who do things that i have strong objections to, but what can i say, it burns you out to see it happen all the time...
I'll also say that just as the "wrong" tone can put some people off, it can also work very well to make people wake up and react that what they are doing is not acceptable. Being sweet only gets you so far sometimes...We've seen it plenty of times around here that some people just completely ignore advice given to them...even when others have spent time and effort in giving them all the information that they were too lazy to search for. We've had very neglectful people putting their animals at serious risk for whom the nice approach just didn't work at all....
Personally, i wish people had been a lot more assertive and even rude back when i was a threat to every living thing that crossed my path because my feelings mean nothing compared to the lives and well-being of living things. I'll get over it, the animals won't...
As for people often being brutalized around here, i couldn't possibly disagree more...this is by far the nicest and most tone concerned forum i've ever seen (except for me perhaps, although i generally make an effort), even when people show that they clearly don't deserve it, and i don't say that because i feel obligated to say so, i say that even though i personally often find it a problem...

 

[juraj]

A long one star thread sic!

 

[Azhael]

For me it’s all about tone. "leopard geckos have different requirements than salamanders..." is much different than, "No way in a thousand hells.."

Well yes, the latter is an hyperbolic expression of emphasis, which is in no way rude or abusive...

 

[sde]

Well yes, the latter is an hyperbolic expression of emphasis, which is in no way rude or abusive...

Depends on who you ask.

Though I really hate telling people this and ruining their experience with native species, it is actually illegal in Washington state to take any wildlife and hold it in captivity without proper permits, which aren't open to the public. Basically, you have to be a scientist. Or at least training to be one. Or you could become a shelter or rehabilitation center...or a zoo. None of which are really ideal choices.

 

[Azhael]

Though I really hate telling people this and ruining their experience with native species, it is actually illegal in Washington state to take any wildlife and hold it in captivity without proper permits, which aren't open to the public. Basically, you have to be a scientist. Or at least training to be one. Or you could become a shelter or rehabilitation center...or a zoo. None of which are really ideal choices.

That sounds pretty ideal to me. Certainly far more ideal than anyone, qualified or not, feeling entitled to extract animals from the wild on a whim...

 

[paice]

So one comment on a forum making it unambiguosly clear that it is a terrible idea constitutes TONES of abuse now? I didn't even attack you personally and say you were a bad person or anything, i attacked the preposterous idea of mixing these three species, and that's fully justified because it is a really bad idea....
I'm sorry if criticism makes you feel abused...but it is your responsability as a keeper to provide adequate care for your animals and before you even knew what it was you had in your hands, you were thinking about mixing it with other animals. That makes me angry, i have no problem admitting it and it definitely doesn't trigger a desire to handle the subject with kid gloves, but rather to make it absolutely clear in no uncertain terms that it is an insane thing to even consider. So, no, i wasn't particularly nice and patient about it and i didn't guide you by the hand. That's because a) this was a surreal thing to read and b) i prioritise the well being of your animals over your feelings...sorry....
I'm sure i'm making it much worse with this post, no doubt.

In the nature animals live ... erm .. together. So asking about mixing 3 species is not preposterous, or bad, or insane, or illogical (especially if you dont know the origins of the species). Also, it is possible that some animals being social could benefit from such mixing. An example of a constructive comment could be "most reptiles are not social thus dont require interactions, in fact most can get stressed because of space limitations or bullying", or "these are not compatible types .. check out <this> and <this> for their requirements"

In addition, most possibly a lot of people could not afford vast spaces for animals, and if 3 species are mixable, it might mean the possibility of arranging larger housing, thus making the question even more valid.

As far as i see, one thing that especially requires pointing out is that most frogs and amphibians secrete fluids that are harmful to outside species and thus mixing them is never a good idea, even when they are of compatible habitats.

As a final note, you are also a pet owner, a person who owns pets, either for profit or personal reasons. Feeding and breeding an untamed animal in captivity against its will. Animals live in the nature, thats why they stress out or try to escape in captivity. Beats the very idea of well being of animals against personal feelings in all practical ways to be honest.

 

[Azhael]

Sure, animals live together in nature....and in nature, some of those animals eat the other ones. Furthermore, i challenge you to find a leopard gecko sharing habitat with ambystomatids and that species of frog, in nature. In captivity, since the well-being of your animals is entirely your responsibility, putting them at risk means you are being an irresponsible keeper.
Asking abotu mixing is certainly not any of those things...but actually doing it, when it's species with such disparate requirements, yes, it's preposterous and yes, it's definitely bad.

If 3 species are mixable, then they are mixable, no argument there. The ones addressed in this post (have you read it?) are most absolutely not. I feel like you think this is about mixing in general, when it is about a specific mix of utterly incompatible species.

Your final point holds true for some species, but i see no evidence that it applies to caudates. If properly housed, they show no signs of stress, they live very long lives and breed regularly and profusely. I don't breed them against their will, i don't use hormones....they breed whenever they feel like it. I don't forcefeed them....i offer food and they take it of their own accord.
Some animals live in nature...others live under your bathroom sink...
I'm not sure i understand what you mean about it beating the point about well-being against personal feelings.