Mysterious warty next (II)

[benjamin]

I have several reasons for believing that my newts are not hongkongensis. The first reason is that I have picture of a hongkongensis belly pattern in one of my books which does not quite match up to my newts, or other newts from the same store (see the thread, "which paramesotriton" in newt help). Another reason why I think they are not hongkongensis is because they were sold with caudos as the same species and I think this confusion could have only have been caused by one thing, the caudos and the unknown newts were found in the same place. If they don't look like anything else (at least the green one), could they be some unknown newt that sneaked its way into the pet trade with out their captors even knowing that they had stumbled across a new species (since they thought they had paddle tails I wouldn't be to surprized)?

I still have one raging question, is the fact that my newts are so friendly to each other enough evidence to conclude they're of different genders?

At least I have one newt that I its species and gender.

 

[jesper]

My males are very friendly with eachother and I've heard of males killing females as well as males so I don't think you can deduce anything from them being friendly as long as it is not mating we're talking about.

I don't think they come from the same place as they prefer different habitats.

It seems that there are many species within paramesotriton that is yet to be identified, at least I get that impression.

 

[benjamin]

Yeah, I suppose paramesotriton taxonomy is just one big mess, and there are probably many unknown species. I think the most confusing thing about this genus, is aside from laonisis and caudopunctatus, every other species looks the same from a distance, after that you can distinguish chinensis by its tail and deloustali by its belly pattern and you still have three (at least) species left over.

 

[markus]

I'll just throw in my two cents . . . I concur Paramesotriton are extremely confusing, but nevertheless intriguing and lots of fun. I received some Paramesotritons a few years back all from the same pet store. Among all these newts I had caudopunctatus, chinensis, hongkongensis, and deloustali - try to figure that one out

. I'll just use this as an example to show that although you got the newts from the same store where caudos were being sold doesn't mean they were all collected at the same location, rather they most likely ended up together at a wholesaler. Good luck with them, they are spectacular animals, hopefully you will be able to identify them.

 

[jesper]

Hi,
Amazing with so many species in one batch, are you still keeping the deloustali? Massive animal, eh?

 

[chris]

The descriptive paper of Fuzhongensis says that Fuzhongs have black spots, whereas guanxiensis does not. The head is broader and more robust in Guanxiensis as well.
Fuzhongensis and caudopunctatus are sympatric at Gupo Hill in Guanxi province, China.
I think that with pet trade animals, it is nearly impossible to determine species outside of Caudos (as they are so very different) and deloustali, because of the size.
I think that the important thing is to get a group of the same species, and then try to work out what they are, even though without locality data it is nearly impossible. There are possibly several species in Vietnam, rather than just the one deloustali.
Imported animals from all over asia are probably pooled together. If you are lucky, only 2 species were imported - your mysteries and caudos, as sometimes there are multiple mystery animals. If they are in a shed (as you have said in another thread), beware, as Paramesotriton should not be taken below 15C - particularly fuzhongensis and hongkongensis. Chinensis is a little more temperature tolerant.
Chris

 

[benjamin]

Thanks for the 15º info, I would have killed them trying to hibernate them at 5º this winter. How should I go about hibernating them, I already don't give any lighting which is what they like. Keeping them above 15º should be easy, I know realise the reason the one is trying to escape could be due to cold temperatures, how high above 15º.

 

[chris]

They don't actually go into a period of dormacy, but just slower behaviour. They breed during this time of cooler temps. If I were you I wouldn't do anything temp wise with them this year until they are fully settled in. Next Autumn just put them in a room indoors which is not very warm, and the air temperatures will do the rest. Males come into breeding condition at warmer temperatures, but females require temperatues of around 15C to breed properly.
So just feed them up and get them into good condition, and try at breeding them next Autumn.
Chris

 

[benjamin]

While I'm fattening them up over the next year what temperature should I keep them at. This next weekend I'm thinking of giving them a larger land area with moss and plants so that they have the option of a slightly more terrestrial life style, maybe this will make the large newt happy. I don't like feeding them blood worms because they fight and dig too much when eating them. I want to feed them something that won't get scattered in the gravel, but at the same time I have to stand by the tank dangling it in their faces for them to eat it (earth worms). Are fat newts happy newts?

 

[chris]

Ben
I was led to the 15C info by Henk Wallays, who said that he cooled them to that temp.
After talking to Henri Jansens, however, he said that he takes them down to 5C for the Winter, and that they are the only species commonly encountered that breeds in Spring, rather than Autumn. He and I both keep them entirely aquatic.
He said that They will also form pairs, and defend their territory against both other males and females, so having multiple females to one male will not work with Fuzhongensis. They do stay active during Winter though.

Re the feeding, if you provide them with cavesd with a 'doorstep' infront, either on the gravel, or ontop of a larger rock. Cut a chunk of worm of a large lob-worm (not the head part) and drop it so that it is infront of the hiding place. It will wiggle, but not crawl away. The newt will poke its head out and grab it. As it won't dig, but will continue to move a bit for a few hours, the newts will find it after dark when they come out to hunt/scavenge. They will also take water hoglice and larger species of daphnia. Live bloodowrm (I believe they sell it the garden centee where you got the newts) is good, but make sure you put it in a net and rinse it first as the water it comes in is disgusting. If they are refridgerated, they may look dead, but as long as they are not rotting, they will become more active when they are in warmer water.
Generally they become a lot tamer when they are hungry - taking chunks of worm from your hands, but will be more reluctant to feed when they are not so hungry. I feed mine about 2-3 times a week.
Chris

 

[benjamin]

My newts are currently at 20º c and seem to be happy now, except for the caudo in quarantine (the wound's stopped growing but it's not healing). One will eat from my hand, while the other I will drop a worm in front of it and it usually catches it. Both have become nice and plump since I got them from the store. I feed mine when I ever I have time and they are hungry which is about two to three times a week. My newts don't hide away during the day, they just kind of aimlessly wander around at an incredibly slowly, in the night they move a lot faster. When ever they bump into each other, night or day, they will sniff each other, then crawl around each other for a little bit then move on. I'm not sure if they're the same species or not, there are many differences.