Illness/Sickness: More black specks, tiger acting sick

[CheeseyDean]

Okay, I finally got a good picture of the specks. My tiger salamander shed a bunch of skin off his tail three days ago, and the black specks were gone. But the next day, they started re-appearing and now his tail is covered with them. He seems to have trouble moving and he won't eat. The specks are not raised, they're completely flat. Here is the picture-

 

[Linus]

Looks about a month overdue for a vet visit as you was advised in your last three threads. Great job creating a new habitat but your tiger will most likely need medication to overcome whatever this is, especially since it is persistent and worsening. I've seen these threads before, no ones identified a pathogen but it has been cured after a trip to the vet.

There are many threads with positive outcomes with conditions very similar to this;

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f47-newt-salamander-help/58646-help-black-spots-what.html

 

[CheeseyDean]

I'll get him to a nearby herp vet as soon as I can. Anything I should do in the meantime?

 

[CheeseyDean]

I'm still taking him to the vet in a day or two, but I just thought I'd give an update. He's eaten four crickets and a feeder guppy today, his eyes are bright and fully open, and he's not acting sick at all. This is strange.

 

[Jan]

It is not strange - it is abnormal as was indicated in the first thread you posted re his condition. Black spots abnormal. Shedding so frequently, abnormal. Four weeks later, it continues. Get him to a vet who is familiar with amphibians. I'll go out on a limb and speculate that this is pathogen induced secondary to improper husbandry. Where I've seen/heard of this occuring in tigers, it is often associated with a wet/overly moist environment with improper ventilation i.e., stagnant, humid environment.

You've been given several links regarding proper care of tigers in general and these black spots in particular...have you read these? Should you have read them, I would question why you are feeding feeder fish? This is not something tigers eat...they are fossorial animals. Reread the links you were given re proper diet...and here is another article on food items for caudates you might want to review - note the commentary on feeder fish:

Caudata Culture Articles - Food Items for Captive Caudates

 

[nwmnnaturalist]

Could be viral. Viruses can have active and inactive periods where the symptoms show up, then seem to resolve and then reoccur again. Some parasites can also do this, symptoms fluctuating due to the breeding cycle of these parasites.

I agree that you should take it to a vet with experience with amphibians, whether or not it seems to be doing well.

 

[CheeseyDean]

It is not strange - it is abnormal as was indicated in the first thread you posted re his condition. Black spots abnormal. Shedding so frequently, abnormal. Four weeks later, it continues. Get him to a vet who is familiar with amphibians. I'll go out on a limb and speculate that this is pathogen induced secondary to improper husbandry. Where I've seen/heard of this occuring in tigers, it is often associated with a wet/overly moist environment with improper ventilation i.e., stagnant, humid environment.

You've been given several links regarding proper care of tigers in general and these black spots in particular...have you read these? Should you have read them, I would question why you are feeding feeder fish? This is not something tigers eat...they are fossorial animals. Reread the links you were given re proper diet...and here is another article on food items for caudates you might want to review - note the commentary on feeder fish:

Caudata Culture Articles - Food Items for Captive Caudates

I am not feeding him fish normally. There was just one left over from the ones I bought for my other animals to eat, and I didn't see how it could hurt. It wasn't very large either- it was some sort of livebearer, only about an inch long. Up until then, 100% of his diet had been crickets and nightcrawlers.

There's a vet not too far from where I live that has experience with salamanders. I'm making the appointment tomorrow.

 

[Linus]

Fish, specifically feeder fish are a pandoras box for disease.

 

[CheeseyDean]

I just got back from the vet. He said the black specks aren't uncommon, especially in older animals, they're usually just a sign of shedding, and the reason he's shedding so much is stress. The salamander also had a small lump under his right back leg. He didn't seem to be in any pain when it was touched, so he said it could be an infection. And that, combined with stress, could be the cause for him being less enthusiastic about food. He gave me some Baytril to give the salamander once a day, and said there's not much else that can be done aside from lowering noise in the room and making it a little warmer.

 

[Jackulwulf]

While I'm not all that knowledgeable about the diseases Tigers can get, I would question what the vet told you about those black spots. If they aren't uncommon as he said and are a simple sign of shedding then I would expect that more people here on the threads would know that already but most people who are knowledgeable about tigers here on the threads don't seem to know what truly causes this problem. I mainly have to question the vet on his knowledge on tigers simply because he told you to make the room a little warmer, that is rarely suggested with tiger salamanders...unless you are keeping your tank really really cold. What are your current temps in the tank? Unless you are keeping the temps lower then the low 60's or so then I wouldn't really worry about making the temps warmer, tigers usually prefer cooler temps. 65 to 70 degrees is usually fine which is the usual range of room temps. I also don't know how much sound would really affect a tiger salamander, mine is in a room where the t.v is sometimes on all day and my tiger doesn't seem to be affected by it at all. But since I don't really know how tigers are affected by sound, that could be valid if you do have a lot of excessive noise going on at your place.

I'm not necessarily saying to not listen to your vet, but what he said just doesn't sound right to me in particular. But then again I don't have a lot of experience with tigers, I've only had mine for two, going on three years and I am not sure what conditions you are keeping your tiger in. I would definitely go with the baytril he prescribed, perhaps these black spots are caused by whatever infection is going on by his right leg and perhaps that may clear everything up. I'd really like to hear updates over the next week or two to see how things are going with your tiger, for future referance on my own tiger's health and benefit. I hope your little guy has a speedy recovery.

 

[CheeseyDean]

The room is usually around 67-68 degrees fahrenheit, and it gets colder at night because his tank is right next a window.

Yeah, I wasn't completely sure about what he said either. But he has experience with salamanders, and he seemed to be knowledgeable. I'm just gonna hope he was right, because the other closest herp vet is 2 hours away.

Two days after he shed last now, the spots have started coming back but only on his tail. He's eating, but it's usually not instant.

 

[Kaysie]

That's definitely not too cold for a tiger. Don't warm it up.

Find another vet.

 

[Linus]

Sounds like the vet thought he was looking at a leopard gecko. Hopefully the baytril will help regardless.

 

[CheeseyDean]

That's definitely not too cold for a tiger. Don't warm it up.

Find another vet.

Vets are not cheap. This one visit was almost $80. And like I said, there is no other nearby.

I didn't warm it up. I'll keep you guys posted on this.

 

[Linus]

Yeah the only one I've found in my area was $80 to walk in and about $200 for any cultures. I feel your pain. I'm hopeful that the baytril will help, it sounds like it did in the older threads! Good luck!!

 

[Jackulwulf]

Well hopefully him having any sort of appetite is a good sign, its too soon to really tell if the Baytril is working I imagine. So hopefully in a little while you'll see some improvement. I'm glad you didn't take his advice on warming up his enclosure since that would have probably added more stress to him, from what I heard its actually better to keep them on the cold side when they are sick anyhow.

 

[Jan]

I just got back from the vet. He said the black specks aren't uncommon, especially in older animals, they're usually just a sign of shedding

Hmmm, not been my experience. I've had tigers with life spans into double digits - not seen this. Just tend to slow down with much less aggresssive feeding response...and some tend to change color patterns as they age - ex. young, brown with yellow spots - old, all olive with a few brown spots.

Baytril - is that being administered as a bath?

 

[CheeseyDean]

No, he said to administer through the mouth. It's a very tiny amount in each thing, so I squirt it on a cricket then feed it to him. It's working great so far.

 

[kiathepooch]

The only ting I've read about that is similar to your problem(as in I've read it in one book and not looked into it more) is hypervitaminosis A aka too much vitamin A.....unlikely to be that but thought I'd throw it out there....


Sent,using the power of my mind.....

 

[CheeseyDean]

He's been eating today. He still hasn't been very active, but the black spots are mostly only on his tail now and they haven't been as numerous. He shed skin off his tail again this morning, so hopefully the baytril is helping him fight whatever it is.