Irianian Newts: Neurergus kaiserii

[deborah]

Did anyone notice someone is selling these at Kingsnake? How do they get ahold of these newts - I thought they were endangered?

 

[sergé]

Illegal smuggle out of Iran to a big trader in the Ukraine..sad but true. Just don't buy wild caught animals is the only thing to stop them from doing this.

 

[roy]

Once out of iran it is officially not illegal to have them so they are almost wiped out by smugglers.

If you like newts you won't buy these.

 

[jameswei]

Only one of those sources are captive bred the rest are wild caught and its terribly unfortunate that nothing is done about it.

 

[deborah]

Do you know who the captive bred source is?

 

[ryan]

I am heavily against buying these newts unless they were sold to a caring owner that intended on breeding them, I, however would not buy them.

There are 3 different adds for these newts on kingsnake.com right now!! Thats to much!

Oh BTW there is an add for greater sirens, man, I wish I could get one!

 

[kara]

isn't a site like kingsnake supposed to be monitored for things like that? or is it just an open market type site?

 

[jean]

The situation with kaiseri seems to be catastrophic in the nature. One Russian friend told me there has been a new import last year directly from the site, then through Bakou in Azerbaidjan and Moscow. However, captive bred animals exist apparently from an old import through Ukraine

 

[roy]

120 animals were smuggled to Ukraine (or some other former USSR state). The total population in the wild is estimated to be a 1000 animals. So this is a huge export.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/59450/summ

There are some people successful with this species Hopefully most of these will end op with serious breeders generating a good captive population so prices drop and stealing them from Iran will be less profitable.

Caudata.org should also add to the info on their site that this species is critically endangered by over collecting for the pet trade and that Caudata.org strongly advices against buying these. I have googled this species and I could find quite some info on how to keep them but hardly anyone mentions how endangered they are.

 

[nate]

Time for a little controversy?

I would have to guess here that simply advising sal/newt hobbyists against buying these isn't in any way going to stop or slow down the imports. N. kaiseri are simply too colorful and too rare...they're catching the eye of non-newt people who are buying them now as well. I think we should face the fact that unless the imports are stopped by Iranians, Ukrainians, or whomever else, there will always be a market for them from now on. In light of this situation, I'd rather see newt-savvy people buying them and trying to breed them rather than non-newt people buying them and killing them or even nobody buying them and 120 newts rotting away unsold. This is a situation where there's a very high chance the wild population will be gone in the next few years.

 

[nate]

I'd add here that in my opinion, the only way to stop the importation of a very lucrative animal is to flood the market with cb at a fraction of the price. After all, even if the price of WC drops to 30$ each, they'll probably still sell them.

 

[roy]

I think that a price drop as a result of CB animals is the best way. But I also think that a lot of people buying these animals do not know how endangered they are and maybe they wouldn't buy them if they knew.

I don't think posting this info in http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Neurergus/N_kaiseri.shtml will solve the problem but it only costs a few minutes and it might help a little bit by making people aware. And being aware is always the first step to a solution.

 

[michael]

There are even more adds now, its pretty sad. I hope with the high price that only responsible people purchase these. Can anyone who works a zoo set some thing up? I also agree with what Nate says. A bit of a "Rock and a Hard Place".

 

[mark]

I think it’ll be a long time before the market gets flooded with cb N. kaiseri – maybe too late for the wild population. There’s no guarantee they’ll be safe even if collection is stopped. Their range is severely limited, habitat unprotected and lets face it newt conservation is possibly not high priority for Iran right now…

I agree with Michael they would make a fine conservation project for a willing zoo. Zoos have access to greater resources than the your average hobbyist and can distance themselves from the commercial nonsense associated with this species. What a great exhibit they’d make too! Sadly zoos (in the UK) tend to avoid caudates, they invest so much creating tropical areas for their herps that it becomes uneconomical to venture into temperate amphibians.

 

[jonathan]

Hope these guys do better in captivity than they've done in the wild.
Assuming the population numbers are close to correct, A population that small being plundered so efficiently spells out rapid extinction. Nate's logic is sound. The difference between the breeder community buying or refusing to buy this animal is probably a difference of only a couple of years in their disappearance.

Ethically, it seems like the community ought to pool resources to acquire animals to breed. Legally, donating to aid the purchase of illegal animals is not really a defensible action, in my opinion.

Which sort of brings up the zoo question. Can/do zoos knowingly purchase animals illegally traded? I have no clue how that works.

 

[ryan]

Looks like they are selling eggs and gravid females now, could they have bred them? If so thats great, CB Neurergus kaiserii cool.

 

[roy]

Catching a gravid female and stuffing it in an aquarium doesn't make in CB.
But this is where most "CB" kaiseri come from.

 

[ralf]

There have been previous discussions on this matter.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/27950.html?1145543256

 

[roy]

Yes that is true but with this rate of import topics on WC kaiseri won't be around much longer

 

[dawn]

Here's something I wish I could donate to! Are there any really successful breeders who would want to take this on? This would be a really worthwhile thing for a group like this to mobilize forces on.

Does anyone have any zoo connections they could refer this to?