Hybrid Ambystoma mexicanum x Ambystoma andersoni

[Bellabelloo]

Now they are on the floor in my shed, they are very hard to see However I managed to spot this one mooching about

 

[oceanblue]

I've followed up Ian's point about lighting and the colour of the hybrids, firstly the picture I posted is an accurate reflection of what they looked like, both after recent removal from a rather dimly lit room, but if you put the hybrid on a dark base and top light it for a few minutes here is what it looks like! They have chameleon like colour changing powers.

It is also time to revise my opinion:

I think there is a very high probability you will end up with a tankful of very pretty morphed "andersoni" from this cross and that is fine if they are in the hands of people who know how to care for and keep salamanders. If this is the case then reporting it will greatly help and maybe allow identification of the nature of the morphing block in andersoni.

I've read a paper indicating mexicanum/andersoni hybrids do not morph spontaneously and a back cross of the hybrid to axolotls, artificially morphed has been used to study tail regeneration mechanisms and variability. PLOS ONE: Variation in Salamander Tail Regeneration Is Associated with Genetic Factors That Determine Tail Morphology

 

[xxianxx]

I am not suprised that axolotls or the hybrids can change colour so drastically, I am amazed at how fast that change actually occured though. I would like to experiment on my A.andersoni to see if they show the same fast colour change but I am conditioning them to breed atm and dont want to mess them about. What we need is a person with a single A.andersoni who is not trying to breed it to have a go....... (thats a hint btw)

 

[xxianxx]

Over the last couple of weeks I have started to notice some male characteristics in a couple of my hybrids. Tonight I found six spermataphores in the tank, it appears they are not all female after all.

 

[imheretowatch]

wow! how did you mange to do that did you take the spermataphore from one species and place it in a tank with the opposite female species? anyways they look awesome good luck with future generations!

 

[Bellabelloo]

Over the last couple of weeks I have started to notice some male characteristics in a couple of my hybrids. Tonight I found six spermataphores in the tank, it appears they are not all female after all.

I shall have a good look at my lot then. I had noticed some had bulked out over the last week or so. I really wish now that I hadn't put their tank on the floor..crawling around the floor is not an attractive idea

 

[xxianxx]

wow! how did you mange to do that did you take the spermataphore from one species and place it in a tank with the opposite female species? anyways they look awesome good luck with future generations!

They were happy to breed naturally. I just placed a female A.mexicanum with a male A.andersoni and the bred.

 

[michael]

I've read a paper indicating mexicanum/andersoni hybrids do not morph spontaneously and a back cross of the hybrid to axolotls, artificially morphed has been used to study tail regeneration mechanisms and variability. PLOS ONE: Variation in Salamander Tail Regeneration Is Associated with Genetic Factors That Determine Tail Morphology

I think they used some of the andersoni I supplied to them for that study.

 

[ahughes052806]

What a wonderful thread!!! I have just read all of the posts and want to thank all of those who have posted. I went into a local pet store the other day and they had a "xlotl" for sale. After looking at it for a few minutes, I don't think that it was an "axolotl" due to some webbing of the feet, gills flipped a bit forward, and his coloration. Its coloration is what I was most surprised about, with it being advertised as an axolotl, his color looked a bit marbled, I informed a worker that I didn't think it was actually an axolotl and he got pretty pissed off at me, and explained the color off as a "fancy axolotl" which I have never heard of. He looked exactly like a picture on caudate that I saw of a tiger salamander larvae, but someone told me that they're illegal in Georgia? I haven't been back to that pet store since, due to the extreme rudeness of the worker!!

 

[oceanblue]

One of the hybrids is an almost certain male so I thought I'd photograph it. I've only been looking down on it from above but when I saw it sideways I was surprised. The dorsal fin has gone, a degree beyond I would expect from comparison with the adult andersoni I own.

In addition the fin on the underside of the tail is reduced and the eyes look more prominent than any of my axolotls or the andersoni. I think it is well on the way to morphing.

There have not been any temperature or water quality issues in the tank in the last few weeks and it is eating well and does not appear in any way distressed.

 

[Bellabelloo]

That is interesting, and does look like it is showing signs of morphing to me.

Mine are in the shed with the water currently at 4 degrees..I will try and have a closer look at my lot and see what they are up to. I really wish I hadn't put their tank on the floor now :'(

 

[Bellabelloo]

Having crawled around the floor on a few occasions, armed with a torch and camera, I am pretty certain none of them are showing any signs of being male or have receding fins. Here is one of the not so blurry photo's.

 

[Slongo]

Have you determined if they are fertile? If so have any crosses been attempted?

 

[oceanblue]

Have you determined if they are fertile? If so have any crosses been attempted?

I haven't attempted to further breed these individuals and if I do I will try to avoid ending up with beasts which look deceptively like andersoni.

The morphing male has now only stumps of gills and a generally tiger like shape. It has access to a ramp and very small land area but at the moment it remains behaviourally aquatic and spends most of its time under the ramp. The other hybrid shows no signs of morphing.

 

[oceanblue]

In the last few days the morphing male has changed his mind about staying in the water, he is now usually on the small land area so I'm preparing a terrestrial setup. Sorry no pictures until next year, my phone line is faulty and pending repair I have intermittent limping narrowband worse than dial up of a decade ago!

 

[Bellabelloo]

Sigh.... I shall now impatiently wait for the new year

 

[oceanblue]

Here's one photo, I'll try more soon!

 

[sde]

Wow! That's awesome!

 

[Bellabelloo]

Thanks for posting the photo so quickly The markings are rather stunning.

 

[Zidartha]

Interesting thread. Subscribing...