Help! There are little white worm thingy's on the glass, my Axie is Itchy! Please help!

[joan]

DO NOT USE THE MEDICATION! You need to check first to see if it actually IS axolotl safe. Many pet stores will tell you that things are, when they are really not. I'm not buying the larval tubifex bit. I'm also a little skeptical about the nitrate being zero. Unless you have a LOT of live plants, your nitrate should still be readable.

Do the worms look like this http://www.mn-aquarium.org/glassworm.gif ?

Tubifex are muddy, parasitic worms. They thrive in polluted water. Are you sure you've been feeding Tubifex? Not bloodworms or blackworms?

 

[grant]

Lots of people feed Tubifex worms, although they are unhealthy for axies because of their high oil content. I'm a little skeptical that they are larval tubifex worms too. And as Joan said definitely make sure that it is axie safe. Anything with Malachite green is very toxic. But about the nitrate being zero I can see that. My nitrate is at zero or unreadable but I do have a few live plants but even when I didn't it was not detectable.

 

[rheann]

I first started feeding Tubifex worm cubes, so perhaps this is where they came from? I am not sure. I did not mean to write the nitrate level as 0, it was my fault, because I am trying to type threads, talk with my husband about my Axolotls problem and watch my tank, so I know that i wrote it out of habbit, and i am so glad that you pointed it out, becausse then I would have felt stupid later. I am sorry. What I meant to say is that is that my nitrate level is 0.5 this is what the employee told me, because I am not sure I test the water right my self, so I have pet stores do it, and that everything is going well. The medication that I put in the water (don't worry axie isnt in the tank yet, she is in a temp tank) is called Parasite Clear by a brand called Jungle, and it has pictures of different parasites on the back cover. is this safe? Thank you joan for your help

I have been nurvous all day worried about my axie, because this happened last night. in her temp tank she seems fine, no itching at all, and looks very good. I hop that the Employee tested the water well, she seemed very helpful, and seemed to know what the little critters where when I showed her in the water sample, she also knew what Axolotls were. Should I take her to the vet just to make sure? Everyone here gives the best advise, and everything leads me a bit further to understand what is going on with my Axie. If it wasn't for this site, i don't think that i would have even gotten an axie because i would have had no help trying to get everything in order. I am deeply impressed with everyones knowladge and confidence on this site

everyone always seems so thoughtful and concerned of others, and its really wonderful! Thank you Joan, I will try to see what I can find out online about the medication before I put my Axie in, and I will also let my tank cycle a week or two longer, just in case the employee didn't test the water accuretly. Thank you again! is there anything else that I should do or know? I am pretty sure that they are tubifex worms floating and clinging around in the tank, as I have a microscope, and they seem to look the same as what I have pictured above, unless they are nimatodes (shudders in dread) I sure hope they aren't!

 

[rheann]

The active ingredients in the medication are:
praziquantel; N-[[(4-Chlorphenyl)amino]carbon 1]-2 6-difluorobenzamide; metronidazole; acriflavine.
Are any of these ingredients harmful?

 

[cynthia]

Praziquantel
is a bitter tasting powder which shows good absorption directly from the treated water, and then admirable clearance of various surface and internal flukes (trematodes) and internal worms in fish.�
http://www.fishdoc.net/articles/details.php?articleId=25

---------------

N-[[(4-chlorophenyl)amino]carbonyl]-2,6-difluorobenzamide

Common name: Diflubenzuron
Chemical name: N-[[(4-chlorophenyl)amino]carbonyl]-2,6-difluorobenzamide
Common Product names: Dimilin® 4L, Dimilin® 2F, Dimilin® 25W, Micromite®, Vigilante®
Pesticide classification: insecticide

------------------

Acriflavine
is primarily used as an antiseptic.

---------------------

metronidazole = flagyl
Internal parasites can be treated with flagyl (metronidazole) (Developmental Biology of the Axolotl recommends 500 mg per 100 g of food for three to four feedings).


-------------------------

I am hoping someone can use my break down of your medication to give input on its safety.

Aside from that I have never heard of tubifex worms spontaneously growing in an aquarium after feeding them in the freeze dried form. However your tank is at the right time in "its life" for nematodes and planaria.

I would not use the medication on the empty tank until I was sure I needed to.

 

[rheann]

thank you so much Cynthia! I know that will help a lot for others who can help me I am sure! I came across an article that talked about tubifex worm infestations, and it talks about using loaches to get rid of them, so I am trying to find some cool water cat fishes or loaches that could help clean up the tank, but if these things don't work, I will have to restart my cycle, and I will make sure to clean everything very well. Here is the article for anyone if they have a future problem like I have. It sure is a pain in the butt! Article
>Could anyone explain if Tubifex worms are good/healthy to planted
aquariums?

Edison Yap wonders about Tubifex. Now, in his post, Edison stated that his
worms were "clean" to begin with - something that I wonder about, as Tubifex
are generally collected from sewage basins (if I'm wrong, correct me - but I
HAVE seen them in such places). I have YET to see any "clean" tubifex,
although I suppose that you can hold them for a period of time in clean
running water to allow them to det rid of the sludge in their guts. I know
that most fish love to eat them, but I am always nervous about buying fish
which have been fed tubifex as they always seem to have intestinal parasites
(presumably from organisms in the guts of the worms). For example, i have
yet to find a dealer of Discus in Toronto that I will buy from (again) as
every time I buy Discus here (and most of the dealers feed tubifex), they
die from what appears to me to be parasitic infestations.

That being said, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with there being a few
live tubifex (or other, non predatory creatures) in your substrate. The only
problem whould arise if your substrate was very heavily infested and for
some reason they all died suddenly. Substrates in nature are alive with a
myriad of timy burrowing creatures. Marine aquarists spend big bucks to buy
"live sand" and take great pride in the flora and fauna which inhabit their
substrates. Properly done, I see nothing wrong with the same sort of thing
working in a freshwater tank - you just have to be careful about the species
selected and the source.

Coming as he does from the Philippines, Edison would be better placed than
most of us to try this out - he would just have to go out into the
countryside and find a small brook or pond and go wading. A local field
guide and a magnifying glass would help.

B.T.W., if you want to get RID of the tubifex in your substrate, buy a few
loaches - they will root them out and devour them in no time flat.

James Purchase
Toronto


I hope that helps! It is an extra step for me

Thank you again so much Cynthia!

 

[rheann]

I have found some more information over the inernet. I am going to clean both tanks from top to bottom ASAP. I am going to use hot water and a little bleach to clean the tanks, and possibly boil the sand (hope it doesn't scratch up my kitchen pots lol) and I am also going to scrub and wash the filters and use new filter cartrages. I am worried that the medicine might harm the axies, so I will take everyones adivise and be very careful and not use the medicated water, and i will keep taking my water in to have it tested, and if by chance the little critters do come back, i will use some Kori Cat fish and possibly some small loaches to clean them up before I add my Axie. I will also try and find a good vet ( I have already been searching for one) in the area that will know about amphebiens and which medications will be safe adn which aren't. I am not sure how they got in my tank, but I suspect that possibly what happened was that the pet store I got her from was feeding her Tubifex worms, because I remember seeing live red worms in the bottom of her encloser at the store, and at the time I thought they were blood worms, or black worms but I did not pay much attention to them, or possibly it could have been from something else, and I am not sure what. The nematodes that I saw looked so familiar to tubafix worms in some pictures, its amazing! I had a hard time telling them apart! I feel bad for my Axie, because now she is homeless for several weeks until I can get the tank reorginized. I have made sure that her water is changed daily, and that she has enough food. Since that one salt bath she seems very relieved, as she has had no itching problems and she doesn't seem too stressed (I really hope that she isn't) I feel stupid that I put the medication in the water, because all I had to do was get some loaches or Kori catfish to take care of the problem, but I was just so worried for her, and tried to listen to the advise of the pet store clerk, and I still don't know if it is safe or not, but won't take any chances. I really appreciate everyones help, and I know that my situation sounds a bit strange, i have never had this happen before, and before I got Axies I did not know that other orginisms even lived in aquariums! It is so strange and amazing to me, and seeing pictures of hydra are also really facinating, and I don't think that I would panic if I had some in my tank. I would like to in the future add live plants, but as I know so little so far, I would like to do a lot of research first. I have seen some beautiful planted tanks over the internet, and many are pictured here at this site

Its quite a talent I think to make such beautiful little areas. If anyone else would have any advise, please don't hesitate. I will keep everyone posted on my progress, and hopefully, hopefully they are just tubifex worms and not Nematodes. Thank you everyone

 

[joan]

The pics may look similar, but you have to look at size too. Nematodes are usually VERY small, while tubifex (not tubifix) are ~1" in length. But most tubifex sold in the US are either frozen or freeze-dried. They don't just start spitting out larvae...

To solve this problem, switch to earthworms! Nematodes will be harbored in the earthworms, but remember that not all salamanders are captives, and that's what they'd eat in the wild.

 

[rheann]

you are right Joan, there is a big size difference

I was worried that the live worms that the pet store fed to her had caused them, I have continued to look over the net and I haven't found anywhere where nemadodes get big, and the ones that are in my tank are very very small, some so small they are hardly their at all! Thank you for pointing that out for me, I really must have a nematode problem, but they were making my axie itch so bad, so I feel I must do what i can to get rid of them. what should i do? i knwo that if I cannot solve my problem, they will only make her itch more, and perhaps cause her to have internal parasites? I have been feeding her earthworms, and from what I have read over the net, nematodes live in the soil and in plants and things, so perhaps this is where the nematodes came from after the worms had their dinner. They are such strange things! I have read on the net there are different types of nematodes, and some ar parasitic! yuck! I think that I will switch to blood worms and black worms, and try some brine-shrimp, as I feel these nema-todes may come back, and cause her to itch again if I start feedng her worms again. poor little girl. Are crickets good for axies? If they are, I shall feed those as well. I feel bad that those things took over my tanks and made my axie feel so bad! thank you again so much Joan!

 

[lisa]

I have the same prob in one of my tanks, it's been going on for a month or so, and I've been trying to figure this out for ages too. Regular tests show nothing wrong with the tank. No nitrates. I just changed the substrate yesterday, but the worms remain. I switched from earthworms to crickets and prawns about a week ago, with no effect either.
Occasionally the axies itch at their gills, and I suspect the internal part of their gills is irritated, whether it's by the worms or not, im still not sure. I've been salt bathing once a day, but it doesn't seem to be clearing up. I will have to try doing 2 a day.
Grrrr this one is bugging me, I know I'm missing something, but what?

 

[cynthia]

You do not need to break down your tanks. Your nematodes are not inside your axolotl they are on the glass so they are not parasitic.

If you break down your tanks and wash them out you are starting over with cycling etc. The nematodes will be back at the same point in your next cycle.
Nematodes and planaria "happen". I always see them in new tanks once fish or what ever has been added. It is what you do after they happen that matters. They are telling you there is too much waste in the tank.

Pretty much all aquariums have nematodes and planaria. Once your tank is established you should hardly if ever see them again. You can keep your axolotl in a container and just wait out the outbreak of nematodes. Do normal maintenance by changing 20% of the water and wait a few days and the population will go down.

Nematodes and planaria live on the extra waste in the water. When you added the axolotl you added extra waste.

Worms are the classic staple food for axolotls you do not want to change that. And no crickets are not a good staple food for axolotls.

 

[rheann]

Hi lisa, This is what I am going to do, I really hope it works and I will let you know if it does

I have done a little more searching on the net, and it turns out according to this site: http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/inhsreports/may-jun00/worms.html
earthworms carry Nematodes, and they can be quite bad for earthworms, as for transfering to axolotls inernally I have yet to find out. I am going to take all the sand out, and boil it from both tanks. i am going to take all the plants out and scold them in very hot water with bleach and salt, and all other decorations I will scold with hot water and soap, as many i think will get ruined by the bleach. I will scold the tanks with hot water and a small amount of bleach. the filters I am going to take apart and scold the parts with hot water and bleach that can come off, and as for the parts that cannot I will do my very best to clean. I am going to replace the carbon filter, and after everything is completly clean and I am satified with it, I am going to put everything back together in the 20 gallon, and after the tank has cycled a bit, put some Kori Catfish in the tank so that they can find what ever nematodes remain if any. My poor axie is going to have to live in an ice cream bucket and a 2 gallon tank for the next 3-4 weeks, and it really upsets me. I keep a vegitible strainger over these so that I can monitor her and make sure that she can breath very well, and also so I can cool the water down when needed. I will let you know how this treatment works for me. some nematodes are harmless, as i think that they are only clinging to the axolotls gills simply just to hang on to avoid the current, but I don't want to take any chances. Let me know if you find out anything too, thanks

 

[rheann]

sorry cynthia, i think I posted just a few second short of yours. i am going to have to take all the water out as it is, because i was stupid and put medication in the tanks that i should not have, and I am very embarrassed about it. the website link I posted shows an earthworm being devored by nematodes, and it really freaks me out. Please do not think i am not taking your adivise you are giving great adivise, I was just stupid and messed up. I can see how frustrating it must be for you to keep giving advise as not much of it on my part is being able to be followed, and I am very sorry. I feel so bad about all of this, and it is my fault because I should have waited to get the medication, because it messed my cycle up placing it in there, as it could be harmful to my Axie. Once again Cynthia, I am very sorry, Please don't hesitate to give me further advise, I am just stupid.

 

[rheann]

I did an experament a few hours ago (hope no one is upset for this) i took my chinese agae eater which I keep in a tank seperate from my axolotls (of course don't worry

) and placed him in the ten gallon tank to see if he would eat the worms. it took him a while to settle, as chinese algae eaters seem to be very skiddish, and I have been watching him for the last 2 hours, and he is none-stop munching on those worms! He loves them! He is going back and forth, back and forth eating the nematodes off the glass, and through the sand he is also searching, i don't think I've ever seen him so happy. Cynthia, is there anyway I can get rid of the medication without changing all of the water? I really believe that if I put my algae eater in the tank every so often, or put some kori cats in the tank, the nematode population will be kept low, as not to wipe them all out, and I will not have to restart my cycle. Its so fun watchign the algae eater chopped away at them! I wish everyone could come over here right now and watch it is very cool! If there is a way that I can keep the tank the way it is and get rid of the medication, please let me know. It came in a tablet form that was round, and I simply had to drop it in the tank, two for the 20 gallon, and I will keep feeding the earthworms, as long as they are not harmful to my Axie. Also, is there any friendly Algae eaters or cat fish that I can keep in the tank to keep the populations down so as that I won't have to keep movign the axie out of the tank to put the fish in? Chinese algae eaters can be quite agressive and very skiddish. Thank you

 

[cynthia]

Please replace the word "waste" with nutrient(s)
in my previous post. I wrote that before coffee this morning (and yes I know it reads like I did too). Sorry

 

[cynthia]

Rheann - The article is talking about Phasmarhabditis sp.: a parasitic nematode isolated from nightcrawlers. These are not the same nematode as the ones in your aquariium.

Please read through this aquarium help page. The answers by the author are in <> brackets. There are several people asking questions about the same problem you are having.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwinvertfaqs.htm

and another one here:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=32198&view=previous

The medication you added to your tank contains dimilin. There was a discussion about the use of dimilin before on this forum and I do not believe we ever reached a point of saying it was safe to use with axolotls or not. That is why I listed the information about the ingredients and left it for someone else who has perhaps used dimilin. Most medication is cleared from aquariums using carbon. I would think that if you have good carbon in your filters it would be able to clear out the medication in a few days.

As far as the nematode population goes, if you would just simply be patient what I have been trying to tell you is they will go away on their own. They are a normal part of a tank that has just finished cycling. You should not have to add fish to eat them once the tank is established.

If you still don't believe me I can always find a few hundred new links telling you the same thing

(Message edited by cynorita on May 31, 2005)

 

[jennifer]

I agree with Cynthia. All of this may be an over-reaction to something entirely harmless. The big questions to me are (1) are you sure about the axolotls "scratching", and (2) are you sure that the worms you saw were the cause of the scratching?

Over the years, I've seen a huge variety of tiny worms spontaneously appear in aquariums. Yes, they look gross. When I see them, I do a few weeks of extra cleanings and extra water changes and they invariably go away or are drastically reduced. I've never seen any that were causing any direct problem to the sals in the tank. An aquarium is a whole ecosystem in miniature. Of course other creatures move in. Some kind of "sterile" environment would probably be less healthy, and impossible to maintain.

Nematodes are harmless 99% of the time. Tubifex are harmless 100% of the time. Earthworms carry nematodes, but they do not harm the earthworm except in very rare cases (like on that website you found). It's like humans and E. coli bacteria: normally they are harmless or beneficial to us, but in rare cases a bad strain can harm someone.

Forget the medication. Forget adding fish to get rid of them. There is a whole host of micro-organisms that are "natural" to find in aquariums. Use less gravel/sand so they have less place to hide. Do some extra cleaning. Take a deep breath and rest assured that your water tests show good water quality and the axies are (I assume) fine.

 

[rheann]

Cynthia - Thank you so much for taking the time to find the articles for me. I will admit I jumped to conclusions, I just have never had this sort of thing happen to me before, and it really scared me. I will add a bit more carbon to my tank just in case, and wait another week for the tank to clear, as in the 20 gallon it seemse the Nematodes are dispensing, and through your patience as well as for others, I have been reasured that they will not harm my Axie, as far as biting or internal parasites. I greatly appreciate your help

and I won't worry about it anymore. I have printed off the articles.

Jennifer - I appreciate your advise too, as for the nematodes causing the itch, I am sure as I had seen her scratching so badly while she was in the tank, and as soon as I took her out, gave her a salt bath in the fridge and then took her out 10 minutes later, she was fine, she wasn't itching anymore, and I think all it was is that the worms were just trying to hang on, so as not to blow away by the small current my internal filter was making. I think there was a bit too much sand in the 10 gallon, but for the 20 gallon it is only covering the bottom enough to stick some fake plants in and make sure they stay stuck.

To everyone helping - Thank you all for your patience and help, this whole thing got me a bit riled up as I have never had such things happen before. I am not going to strip my tank down, I will leave the 20 gallon the way it is, and just add some extra carbon to help get rid of the medication. As for the 10 gallon, I am going to clean it out and use it as a Quarintene tank for new arrivals in the future, and I will be very careful and try not to over react or react badly when I see a new critter in the tank that I have never seen

Thank you again everyone for all your help. My axolotl is doing very well, and she is eating good. I am still feeding the earthworms, as I gave her a juicy piece this morning and she gobbled it up so fast it was so cute. I will post about my progress

As for the Chinese Algae eater, I think he really had a field day

So its good to know that these creatures (though strange) do not harm aquarium critters, and fish seem to like eating them

 

[joan]

You'll probably go through another freak-out when you start seeing planaria or other worms. I know I did. I think it's a right of passage or something to freak out at some point. You're not alone!

 

[rheann]

lol Joan! Thats probibly true for me!

well, I think I have some further news. I decided to take a look at my earthworms and the dirt they are kept in under my microscope, and I cannot find any evidence what so ever there are any nematodes, and according to some discussions over the net through some animal chatrooms tubifex worms, when fed live carry nematodes and other tubifex worms, and I have a supsicion that the pet store i got her from was feeding these to her (which I think now maybe a him) because they were trying to feed her floating pellets, which he/she and the other axolotls didn't take interest in because they hadn't been taught to look up to eat. While I was there to get her, I noticed several worms poking out of the sand substrate they were in, but paid little attention to them as I was more interested in getting my new little friend home, and I learned that Tubifex worms sit in the sand and dirt this way, so I am going to call Capital Aquarium tomorrow and question them on what foods they fed. I am not worried about them harming my Axie, I am worried because Live tubifex worms thrive off of human waste, and a lot are wild caught, and I do not want these in my tank if this is the case, as the nematodes that are carried in the tubifex worms are parsitic to tubifex worms, and breed like rabbits (bad way of putting it, sorry rabbits). I hope this will help others, and I am convinced they will not harm my axie, I just do not want these type of nematodes or worms in my tank. I was advised to buy severel small albino Corydora catfish and let them root out all of the tubifex worms and nematodes, as I have noticed only part of the creatures stay very small, hardly there at all, and the others get to be a few mm's. My chinese Algae eater loved eating them in the 10 gallon, but he is still so small, and severl Corydora catfish will do a better cleaning then him. I hope that this is the right thing to do, as if they were only earthworm nematodes, I would not get the cat fish. I was also advised to if the cat fish cannot take care of the problem to take my tank apart and boil everthing, but as I see in the big 20 gallon tank they are not taking over like they were starting to in my 10 gallon, so I will see what happens, and I really would rather not take apart my tank as my axie needs her home. I will let everyone know of my progress, thanks everyone for helping