Help! Newts and Fire Belly toads

[mandy]

I just got 2 good-sized fire belly toads and a Paddletail newt. I have heard many people say it's ok to mix these animals, and i've also heard almost as many say it's not. One very reputable store said you can always mix newts with the toads, as long as they are small newts and not paddletails, but the store that i bought them from say they always mix them (they were in the same tank when I purchased them) and they've never seen a problem and have been doing it forever. They said as long as I'm not underfeeding them, they have no reasons to bother each other. I really am enjoying my animals, and I would hate to get rid of either one of them.
My newt is a slithery loner who likes to hang out under the log and walk around on the gravel, and the toads are usually on the lilypad up top, they seem to live very separate lives. When i feed them they stay away from each other also. I would like to hear as much input as possible on what I should do. For now, I'll just keep my eye on them to make sure no one gets out of hand. Also--I really planned on having a few newts, what other species would u recommend? I have a 20 gal. long with a lot of hiding spaces.

 

[benjamin]

Those people are idiots who work at petstores, and others. NEVER EVER MIX SPECIES WHEN A NEWT IS INVOLVED, I'm sure there is not a sole on this forum who dissagrees with me. Your paddle tail will eat the toads and the newt will dye from the poison. The toads are staying on the lily pads because they are afriad of the newt. DON'T EVER MIX NEWTS WITH FISH, FROGS, ANY OTHER ANIMALS, OR NEWTS OF ANOTHER SPECIES, NEWTS WILL ONLY LIVE HAPPILY (OR AT ALL) IN A SPECIES TANK.

 

[joseph]

Ben: While newts can be mixed with some things(such as small fish) this doesn't always work and must be done with careful consideration. The firebelly toad is quite toxic and its secretions could affect the paddletails and vise versa

 

[benjamin]

Go into Caudata culture, then articles, then species mixing dissasters and I'm sure you'll get a good Idea of what could happen if you keep your animals together. Everybody who knows about the specific needs of caudates knows not to mix species (most petshops don't). Paddletails live in cold streams (<20cº) while firebelly toads live in warms ponds (24cº). Paddle tails need current, firebelly toads will get killed by too much! Read caudata culture for general newt and specific paddletail (pachytriton sp.) information. Find out the species of your paddle tail, there are two possible types. Hope no harm comes to them while your keeping them together (big no no).

 

[mandy]

ok, after reading those stories, I see the problems. So now I'm assuming I have to get a diff. species of newt, since there were 2 stories in there about Paddletails being agressive, even with each other. So no newt species should be mixed at all ? Is it a bad idea to get a bunch of the same kind of newts? Or do they like to be alone?

 

[kaysie]

Right, dont mix newts with anything, except for POSSIBLY some of their own species. Most newts are solitary and dont NEED companionship, but some do well in small groups (Cynops orientalis is a good species to start with, also Axolotls). Paddletails are pretty agressive, but they're interesting and amusing pets. Just because it's agressive doesnt mean you need to get rid of it. But you can NOT house the paddletail with the toads. For toxin reasons, aggression reasons, and newts are very sensitive to their environment. Liken it to putting penguins in a tropical setup (a bit extreme, but you get can see how it would stress them).

 

[joseph]

Housing paddletails with diff kinds of newts is a no. Paddletails, providing you have a big enough of a tank and don't have a particularly aggresive individual, you could keep several.

 

[jennifer]

If you want to ensure the long-term health of the animals, then mixing any newts with FBT is not a good idea. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml
In particular, read the third little story on the page.

 

[mandy]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Joseph S (Fishkeeper) wrote on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 02:13 :</font>

"
Housing paddletails with diff kinds of newts is a no. Paddletails, providing you have a big enough of a tank and don't have a particularly aggresive individual, you could keep several."<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>


Ok, so I think im going to try that then... because i want more than one animal. Would I be able to tell right away if one was an aggressive animal?

 

[benjamin]

Just try to keep them in the best possible conditions, a good amount of space, good filtration (because they're stream dwellers), and cool temperatures. The last thing you want the newts to feel is over crowded and too warm. Both will cause stress leading to agression, if they fight in a warm environment they will be more prone to secondary infection.

 

[kaysie]

Make sure there are lots of hiding spots. and the two newts are of similar size

 

[ira]

Mandy,

as a general rule, unless you are in a specality shop, dont listen to anything the sales people tell you in at a petstore. They are generally just trying to get rid of animals before they die in their store. Now, dont get me wrong, not every petstore is like this, but i would say a large percentage is. The best way to do it is to research the animal before you buy it, there for you will know what it actually needs, instead of having to trust someone who is just trying to make a sale.

 

[mandy]

Thanks for all the advice! I got a new tank today to put the Paddletail (oh yeah he's a P. labiatus

) in and probably get another Paddletail from that same store eventually for his roomate.

I have a few more questions though since you guys have helped so much:

1. Is a 10 gal a good size for him

2. Why is he waving his tail at me? Is he guarding his territory? he doesnt do it to the FBT's..just me.

3. He only eats bloodworms so far, is that normal? He seemed interested in a tiny mealworm but wouldnt eat it. He's not interested in tiny crickets either.

4. Would it stress him too much to move him into his new tank since he JUST got into this one? Should I wait or do it right away since he's with the toads?

Thanks!

 

[kaysie]

Move him into the tank right away. The tail waving could be due to stress of being in with the toads, or he could be flirting with you. Since I've never kept paddletails, I couldn't tell you about the size. Try offering him chopped earthworms, as they're probably the most healthy food overall. keep in mind that he probably won't eat every day (and if he does, you shouldn't feed him every day). If it's a full grown newt, feeding it every other day or twice a week is fully adequate.

 

[jennifer]

A 10-gallon tank would be fine for him, but that would be MUCH too small for two or more of them. These newts are territorial. In order for them to not kill or maim each other, they need plenty of space to set up separate territories. I would say that two of them would need at least a 30-gallon for this reason.

 

[hayden]

Hey there,
Im sorry I missed this Post earlier...When keeping Paddle-tail newts there are many Risks to consider before keeping more than one individual...I myself Had had 3 semi-adults housed together for a long time with no aggression shown at all...But one Day I looked In the tank there was A newt with a tail missing...He eventually died from Emaciation...I think one of the main aggressions with these newts is same sex aggresion...I have a male and a Female that I have never seen Fight...Unless over food...But when I had two males they fought like betta fish...I myself Have two in a ten gallon but...I would highly reccomend at least a 15 gallon...Also, I would reccomend Highly Planted tanks with Several Caves...Any more questions or anything I Missed out Email me at kurt_bert_claudio@hotmail.com

 

[hayden]

Kaysie, Paddle Tail Newts will eat until they explode...

 

[kaysie]

Hayden, much like any other newts

 

[hayden]

Teehee...My C.orientalis Will eat Only a little bit...They seem to want to starve themselves...Super Model Newt Syndrome I guess...

 

[rose]

Mandy, just out of curiosity, was the store from which you purchased your animals a Petco?