Glo- animals

[SludgeMunkey]

Absolutely true...Unfortunately i don´t see that happening, not now, not ever...
While this discussion is going on there are people in other threads talking about how awesome it is to make an axolotl glow from the inside. At least this thread exists which is way better than nothing.

I have to admit i sort of like pugs (i used to know one that always seemed to me like a mafia boss in disguise), but they are a compound of horrible malformations...quite frankly anyone who breeds them deserves nothing but my utter disgust. Who could possibly wish so many terrible things onto the animals they supossedly love...

Agreed. All of mine are fixed....and rescues. They live here because of stupid, ignorant, disgusting animals. You do not want to know what my dog care budget is...or how much corrective surgery costs to have little Roxie dog's snort fixed so she could breathe better.


As for the "oh cool they glow" threads elsewhere, I saw those too, but I didn't see any reason to place my opinions there...

 

[Nowicki418]

I'm certainly not an expert in genetics or glowing axolotls but I do feel the topic of altering genes and/or selective breeding is an ethical one. Which unfortunately means we can't rely on the trusty scientific method. However, I do love discussing philosophy so allow me to play devil's advocate for a bit here:

• Why is unnatural bad? Many components of our homes, machinery, and textiles used in our everyday life are not natural yet we do not see these as being bad. Unnatural has proven to work better than natural substances in some circumstances.
• Genetically modified animals may have harmful side effects but that is because we are not very good at modifying things yet. As we learn to improve our skills ,and continue to practice on live subjects, we will learn how to eliminate these.
• Glowing pets are cool so there is a demand for them. Money can be made.

The human race is on a trend of growth and development. It seems almost natural that people are compulsed to try and "improve things". Of course in a finite world this is a dooming mindset. "I don't just want an axolotl, I want a glowing axolotl" But where is this breaking point? How far is too far?

But personally, I don't have much of a standpoint. I think it's a gray area. Not really bad or good. I am for furthering research in genetic modification and if a scientist wants to sell some leftover experimental animals rather than just slaughter them. Ok. Just don't make the pet trade come before the research and understand that the consequences of meddling with the natural world can be extremely severe.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[asfouts]

Just a sidenote off of what you said Nowicki418 Biology and philosophy go hand in hand, The "study of life" and the "art of living" (respective definitions). This discussion is a perfect example of the two being intertwined as we discuss what is right and wrong and what dwells inbetween. Its fun seeing where everyone sits on the matter.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Just a sidenote off of what you said Nowicki418 Biology and philosophy go hand in hand, The "study of life" and the "art of living" (respective definitions). This discussion is a perfect example of the two being intertwined as we discuss what is right and wrong and what dwells inbetween. Its fun seeing where everyone sits on the matter.

Exactly! It is even better when rational, logical thinkers from both sides of the debate interact in a civil manner.


I have been pondering this particular thread for quite a few days now. This really is an interesting study in scientific and personal ethics.


As for GMOs being harmful, the reality is that to date there is little or no valid evidence they are harmful, be it the food you eat or the critter in your tank. This is fact. There are a good number of peer revue publications that state otherwise, however, when one actually bothers to read the paper it is obvious even to non scientists with basic methodology knowledge that the findings are invalid and biased. We live in a world culture where alarmist fear and public ignorance are very profitable...


So, back to glow critters, here is a fun one for everybody:

Green Fluorescent Protein - The GFP Site


This is a really good consumer grade reference to help explain the why and how of the trait. Have a good read of more than just the splash page and you might learn something folks! Feel free to bow down and worship my throbing huge ego!

 

[Tappers]

Feel free to bow down and worship my throbing huge ego!

Hope you can feel the waft of palm leaves fanning you gently from here!

This is a fascinating discussion indeed and as has been said, it says as much about us as it does GFP..

 

[mshine1217]

I've seen the glo-fish the at the fish stores I have never nor ever will purchase such manipulated animals. It reminds me of the painted bunnies and chicks that are sold at Easter time. It's all marketing and based on $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Azhael]

The GMO phobia is something that annoys me deeply. Like you said, Johnny, facts. My possition against FP animals is not because they are genetically modified, it´s simply because it prioritizes cosmetics over welfare. Yes, a scared axolotl that freaks out because it´s lighting from the inside is not the most serious case of animal rights abuse, i know, but it´s still obvious disconfort and i find it very difficult to justify it for such a lame and insignificant cosmetic benefit. If you want to see things glow, get a glowing plant that doesn´t have a nervous system, or better yet, buy some glow in the dark paint and go berserk on your room. Maybe it´s just me but i couldn´t enjoy the effect of the fluorescence if i knew that meanwhile my animal is not having exactly a good time. As i´ve said way too many times already, for me it´s a matter of priorities and the fact that so many people´s are backwards from my point of view is very worrying, because the scale of what people are prepared to tolerate in favor of cosmetics only seems to get larger and larger...(does this make you uncomfortable? Oh but you look so pretty.....Does this give you neurological problems? But the colours are so cooool!) then again it´s very easy to tolerate these things when they are not happening to you and your empathy isn´t working very well...

Like in sooooo many other aspects of our culture, cosmetics is given an exorbitant significance, and like in so many other aspects of our culture, it´s f´ed up as hell...

 

[SludgeMunkey]

The GMO phobia is something that annoys me deeply. Like you said, Johnny, facts. My possition against FP animals is not because they are genetically modified, it´s simply because it prioritizes cosmetics over welfare. Yes, a scared axolotl that freaks out because it´s lighting from the inside is not the most serious case of animal rights abuse, i know, but it´s still obvious disconfort and i find it very difficult to justify it for such a lame and insignificant cosmetic benefit.

Agreed, however, in this case, "normal" axolotls panic when a regular light is used just as much as GFPs and a black light do. (Which is what I think you were saying here) As for the cosmetic bit, in this case it was not cosmetic, it was scientific, but as with many popular caudates they were unethically released into the pet trade for profit.

If you want to see things glow, get a glowing plant that doesn´t have a nervous system, or better yet, buy some glow in the dark paint and go berserk on your room. Maybe it´s just me but i couldn´t enjoy the effect of the fluorescence if i knew that meanwhile my animal is not having exactly a good time. As i´ve said way too many times already, for me it´s a matter of priorities and the fact that so many people´s are backwards from my point of view is very worrying, because the scale of what people are prepared to tolerate in favor of cosmetics only seems to get larger and larger...(does this make you uncomfortable? Oh but you look so pretty.....Does this give you neurological problems? But the colours are so cooool!) then again it´s very easy to tolerate these things when they are not happening to you and your empathy isn´t working very well...

Like in sooooo many other aspects of our culture, cosmetics is given an exorbitant significance, and like in so many other aspects of our culture, it´s f´ed up as hell...

No argument from me, but this goes right back to previous debates on this site about the very nature of the axolotl organism to begin with, the debate about the definition of species, and the very nature of the profit based productions of animals to supply a demand.

I do find it odd however that with lower invertebrates it is generally "ok" socially, but as soon as you jump to higher invertebrates it is taboo. For example To my knowledge FP pigs, mice, puppies and kittens are not available to pet owners. But as with any serious, intelligent debate generally the status quo wins, and you and I are in the minority if for different reasons.


(Hmmmm...that reads like I might know something more than superficial on the topic, which I do not...it appears those university classes are working....sorry!)