Gigliolii

[stefan]

For those who did not check the salamandra-thread at the species discussions.
Hope you like them.

 

[jeff]

very nice pictures and great habitat!

 

[william]

wow, great set of photos!

 

[erick]

What species is that?

 

[leonardo]

Hi Stefan!
are they CB?...

 

[sergé]

I think they were sold in Germany as adults but as Captive breds by a whole sale trader, but I don't believe they were captive bred.
Stefan have you bought them as adults?

 

[christian]

I love them

 

[ali]

Those guys look awesome, and I too like the habitat. Do you have a shot of the full habitat?

 

[katie]

Awesome!!!
like Ali, I would love to see a shot of the whole habitat!

 

[leonardo]

I hope you all know that every WC gigliolii in the trade is illegal...as it's strictly protected here in Italy...

 

[stefan]

Leonardo, i know that every WC Salamandra s. is illegal. They were sold as CB as Serge already mentioned but TODAY i know that they are not.

 

[john]

Wow! those are very impressive animals!

 

[leonardo]

it's wasn't a critic to you Stefan, but to those who keep catching these beautiful animals (from Calabria in particular)for the European/International trade...there are many places where giglioli's populations are in serious difficulties for these illegal trade...

 

[sergé]

Problem is the whole sale trader, who, although he knows they are not CB still takes them. The seller is also known, but there are people who don't want to bite the hand that feeds...

I don't know how they can do it, as in Germany you need also papers for CB! But I know german authorities are keeping a close eye on what he is doing.

 

[stefan]

Probably it would help if people offer their morphs on a side like this. As long as there is no way to get gigliolii-CB for "normal" people there will be WC-animals. It seems that you Serge have no problems to get CB giglioliis or CB-N.kaiserii (Are they CB??)but there are many many people who do not have your connections....

(Message edited by sill on February 22, 2006)

 

[william]

Leonardo: are all amphibians protected in Italy?

 

[leonardo]

yes they are...even if some Italian regions can have particular laws so that some species can be kept...but species like S.salamandra, S.terdigitata, Speleomantes spp. and others, cannot be caught in any Italian region...

the real problem is that people don't mind so much if their animals are CB or WC...moreover, the offer of CB, as said Stefan, is so little that a "normal" hobbyst rarely has the occasion to buy CB specimens...

 

[william]

would those regional laws include exporting?

 

[sergé]

Italian laws should be directly incorporating the EU guideline 92/043 from May 1992. All Eu Memmebrs shoudl do that and that means WC animals on those appendixes can not be traded or caught without permission. But not all countries have implemented the laws well enough (like the UK) and there are always people doing illegal stuff see for further http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/nature/

Stefan: I do not have gigliolii; in the Netherlands all Salamandra salamandra subspecies are prohibieted, even CB ones, which is of course very strange when you have open borders between countries...!
My kaiseri are F1 CB from the people who took a small group of them from Iran in 1995 (or 1996). I have bought them 4 years ago as larvae!

 

[sergé]

Sorry for the typo's I was too quick...