Exodus of experienced keepers on the board?

[otolith]

Has anyone else felt like the board has lost a lot of core/experienced keepers in the past several years? I've noticed the frequency of posts about axolotls/tigers/new to newts questions go way up and the traffic on the other genus boards go down. Just curious if anyone else has noticed this same pattern. What other internet community is there to go to if not caudata?

 

[auntiejude]

Some experienced keepers get really hacked off when the same questions get asked over and over again, and the answer is found easily by scrolling down or doing a search or even just reading the basics on Caudata.

And there's the people who won't take advice - they ask a question, don't like the answer so they do their own thing anyway, usually to the detriment of their pet.

And the people who really shouldn't be keeping ANY kind of pet, let alone a caudate.

And the proliferation of bad advice and misinformation. Something is said on a forum, someone else repeats it, and before you know it it's considered 'fact', even though it's a complete load of rubbish.

And the sad stories of 'why is my pet sick?' when it could have been so easily prevented with a little thought and research.

But there are also some experienced keepers who have given it up - for whatever reason - and so don't come around because they are no longer immersed in caudates.

Some experienced keepers also get fed up with the lack of intelligent conversation on advanced subjects - a lot of discussions here are basic care and information.

I completely agree, we need the input of the experienced people and the breeders who know what they are talking about. But the newcomers with problems need to respect the advice and opinions they are given and do some research BEFORE they get an animal and mistreat it.

 

[Otterwoman]

I hear you. Often when people learn what they need about a subject, they move on. We are lucky to have such a huge archive of great material, but it is definitely true about people getting tired of the same questions over and over. I have heard that complaint from people myself.

 

[Redear]

I feel like Caudata.org caters to both the advanced and beginner hobbyist. (Which I think is great) As a result you get all the super excited newbies asking a million questions. Questions experienced keepers might feel are obvious.

I really believe that the future of Caudates is in the hands of people. Their environment is getting polluted and destroyed. The pet trade has done its damage. Hobbyists are important for the future of these animals. So, we need to make those new to the hobby feel welcome. (Even if it means having to look at a the same type of thread over and over)

That being said, I am all for intelligent high level discussions. So I get your point.

 

[Niels D]

I must admit that I avoid everything being posted in the axolotl part most of the time. It's not because of the fact that a lot of (already answered) questions are being asked there, but because I prefer other newts and salamanders. Though I consider myself to be an experienced keeper I can still learn a lot. I will definitily keep on visiting this forum, mostly on a daily basis.

 

[sde]

I have actually thought about posting about this numerous times, but feared it was kind of a sensitive matter.
But in the end, I TOTALLY agree with what others have said, it does get a bit annoying that people ask the same questions over and over and over again, even to me, a not so experienced keeper.

I honestly wish I was older, because it definitely seems like a LOT of the experienced keepers are gone. All you have to do is go back a ways in the advanced section on something, and you will see all this great info and advice and topics going around, but nowadays, there just isn't as much. Advanced topics seem to get a lot less attention, and usually don't go anywhere. It is very frustrating! It is like I missed all that info. Even if I do go back, if I ask a question, it probably wont get answered, because those great threads are all so old, and the people involved in them gone.

I somehow once was able to get to the old C.org website, before it was all popular, and before the new look and stuff happened. When there was still good old knowledge being thrown around.
When Pin-Pin Wei was still there, and a lot of knowledgeable people. And just few minutes of reading posts on T. granulosa and it was amazing! The knowledge and experience, I could have learned so much from it. But then I left, and I don't know how to get back.

I am not saying that no one is knowledgeable here, its just that the advanced topics are pretty much dead. You ask something specific on the advanced topics, and it probably wont get answered. I don't know, maybe I will try again, but I didn't work the last time.
Like this one:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...7-does-coal-effect-amphibian-populations.html

Nothing. It is a question that I am interested in, because it does seem very peculiar to me, but no one answered.

So here's to the good old caudate, and to hopes that some of them good old knowledgeables will come back........

-Seth

 

[Niels D]

There's still enough knowledge within the members on this forum. A lot of this knowledge is already written down. The whole idea is learning from this written information and it doesn't matter if the one responsible for this information isn't active on this forum anymore. The only down side is that you have to search this forum for the information you want, before you start asking. I must admit that not everything can be found afterwards, but most questions can be answered by feeding the search machine the right words. Don't underestimate todays members.

 

[auntiejude]

There's still enough knowledge within the members on this forum. A lot of this knowledge is already written down. The whole idea is learning from this written information and it doesn't matter if the one responsible for this information isn't active on this forum anymore.

Absolutely! I learnt 80% of what I know from this forum and it's members (and other sites), the other 20% is from personal experience. There are some things I haven't had to experience for myself because I read about it here first.
I don't consider myself an expert, just someone who has done a lot of reading and research, has observed her pets, and has a little experience under her belt.

 

[michael]

I think most forums experience the same thing. Caudata.org has a strong base in the faqs and caudata culture sections. O.K. I never use the faqs but do use caudata culture. The info on caudata culture has been well thought out and vetted.

Advice on the forum is often given by enthusiastic novices that want to discuss caudates but don't have enough experience to give good advice.

Their are a lot of experienced lurkers, advanced hobbyists, and caudate professionals that use the forum and rarely post.

 

[sde]

There's still enough knowledge within the members on this forum. A lot of this knowledge is already written down. The whole idea is learning from this written information and it doesn't matter if the one responsible for this information isn't active on this forum anymore. The only down side is that you have to search this forum for the information you want, before you start asking. I must admit that not everything can be found afterwards, but most questions can be answered by feeding the search machine the right words. Don't underestimate todays members.

Yah, there is a lot of written knowledge, but it is such a pain to find.
The search machine is great, except for when you search something specific and it doesn't know what to do ( or something like that ) and brings up 500 threads. But yah, it can be use full for sure.

Absolutely! I learnt 80% of what I know from this forum and it's members (and other sites), the other 20% is from personal experience. There are some things I haven't had to experience for myself because I read about it here first.
I don't consider myself an expert, just someone who has done a lot of reading and research, has observed her pets, and has a little experience under her belt.

Haha, so humble, but I personally think of you as pretty much a expert .

I think most forums experience the same thing. Caudata.org has a strong base in the faqs and caudata culture sections. O.K. I never use the faqs but do use caudata culture. The info on caudata culture has been well thought out and vetted.

Advice on the forum is often given by enthusiastic novices that want to discuss caudates but don't have enough experience to give good advice.

Their are a lot of experienced lurkers, advanced hobbyists, and caudate professionals that use the forum and rarely post.

Caudata Culture is amazing! I use it all the time, in fact, I find myself printing a lot of it off for use whenever I want to! Who knows, maybe by the time I am 40 I will have printed it all off .

 

[JAK]

While I haven't been around long enough to notice an exodus of experienced users, I have noticed a level of persistent growth that may seem to water down discussion. While a continually growing community is vital, I can recognize that the level of discourse brought by novice members such as myself may fail to inspire the enthusiasm of more knowledgeable individuals. However, simply being poorly versed in caudates does not render one incapable of contributing to advanced discussion.

I'll also point out that even experienced users may be incorrect in their information, and are in fact as apt to parrot advice or information as the very new. I have, for example, observed a disturbing lack of knowledge regarding effextive sterilization technique. Perhaps it is just a microscopist misunderstanding what a herpetologist means by "sterile" but I won't guess.

In any case, if one wishes to retain or engage a group of users one might simply find out what they desire and provide it. Why not poll the experts and see what they want? Perhaps they would enjoy recognition for their valuable contributions, an exclusive thread, or perhaps some sort of "ask the experts" sticky where they might help to cut down on repetitive posts, why not try a feature where the expert can share with novice how/why they made the transition from simply a pet owner to a really knowledgeable caudate keeper? I don't know, just two cents from this newcomer.

Posted from the newt-phone!

 

[michael]

I have, for example, observed a disturbing lack of knowledge regarding effextive sterilization technique. Perhaps it is just a microscopist misunderstanding what a herpetologist means by "sterile" but I won't guess.


Posted from the newt-phone!

I'm curious what you are talking about sterilizing. It is important to worry about cross contamination between tanks and cleaning contaminated habitats. A tank with a healthy growth of algae and microorganisms is often healthier than a "sterile" tank.

 

[Margie]

As an experienced keeper with a strong science background, I don't use the word "sterilize" when I'm talking about cleaning equipment. I doubt many (any?) of us have the necessary lab-type conditions to truly achieve sterilization. I say "sanitize" to indicate cleaning with the intent to kill the types of parasites, bacteria and viruses that are of concern to me in my aquatics operation.

 

[JAK]

On second thought maybe some are simply leaving for a place where people at least try to stay on topic ;-)

But anyway, I've seen a number of threads of people wishing to clean tanks in preparation for new inhabitants, or wanting to "sterilize" things with a brief stint in the freezer or oven that make me question their sanity (and the rarity of microbial hazards).

Posted from the newt-phone!

 

[Bellabelloo]

Jak, I think we need you to make a post on how to steralise safely

 

[Yahilles]

I can see this forum is becoming beginner-only. The experienced people are leaving it, either because of boredom (scarcity of interesting threads about, for example, rare species breeding and newbie threads keeping going) or issues against admins/mods (i've heard of some which happened in the past). Even Rodrigo who was unimaginably patient for newbies seem to be rarely posting now. I'm visiting only few sections at this time and i almost never go to the axolotl section. When some friends send me links to threads there with titles "is my axie going to catch flu because i am sick now?" i am glad i never do so.
It will be taken as mean but for me the axolotl section seem to be a raising pond for "sweet & dumb". Which is also not a thing that convinces serious keepers to join.

I'm curious what you are talking about sterilizing. It is important to worry about cross contamination between tanks and cleaning contaminated habitats. A tank with a healthy growth of algae and microorganisms is often healthier than a "sterile" tank.

+1
What i see by looking at axolotl community here on CC and on one Polish forum is that people are getting crazy about keeping axolotls absolutely, totally clean. Really, some people forget that newts and salamanders did not evolve (ah sorry i forgot some people deny evolution) in crystal-clean tubs of water, without any contact with any kind of fungi, bacteria or algae. Overall, some people who maintain aquarium act like they never seen a lake or pond before.

or perhaps some sort of "ask the experts" sticky where they might help to cut down on repetitive posts

Yeah, i can totally see "[ASK THE EXPERTS] What to feed my firebelly newts with?"
okay, i understand that sticky would be for moderators or something, just couldn't help myself saying this.

 

[JAK]

Jak, I think we need you to make a post on how to steralise safely

The problem with that is I'm very green still as far as herpetology goes. I could go on and on about the merits and methods of sterilizing culture mediums and labware, the importance of technique to application, even the reason platinum loops are superior to nichrome despite the cost; but so far it's hard for me to apply my knowledge to areas relavent to the users here in a meaningful way. Right now about all I could do to get people interested is make some cultures taken from wood that's been baked for instance and post photomicrographs of the various strains...

But that's all part of the reason I would hate to see the experience of long-time users moving on to somewhere else. Say I do something like the above and find some of that treacherous fungus that's killing amphibians all over, as a newcomer I wouldn't know how or even if I should sound the alarm. So to the experienced folks lurking in the shadows: please stick around, some of us will need years to catch up!

Posted from the newt-phone!

 

[Ominojacu]

I believe the knowledge is cyclical. Interest rises and falls, and in many cases information is rediscovered. Hopefully the internet makes that easier. I remember when I first became interested in spotted salamanders, about 25 years ago, I had found an old book, from the fifties maybe, that described how to breed them. I think the issue is not experienced people leaving but a general wane in interest. I see the same thing at other herp sites. Kids these days are too busy playin the donkey kongs and wearing bell bottoms to learn about herps. I blame our education system that has reduced learning to test taking and has effectively squashed curiosity and innovation.

 

[Azhael]

Kids these days are too busy playin the donkey kongs

If by kids these days you mean me 20 years ago. Bloody good game too, and great soundtrack.

 

[jAfFa CaKe]

Kids these days are too busy playin the donkey kongs and wearing bell bottoms to learn about herps. I blame our education system that has reduced learning to test taking and has effectively squashed curiosity and innovation.

I'm a kid, but my life revolves around herps, I swear! No one but me in my school thinks that they are the greatest things ever! I'm guessing about 99% of my school would be "Axo-whatl?" if they asked me about my pets. I wouldn't refer to myself as a knowledgeable Memeber , however I do know a thing or two about Axies. I have notices that the Advanced Section barely ever ( if at all) has the green circle to show there's a new post.