Don Hamper Busted

[shaun]

I think Danny was being sarcastic. Maybe a marked diregard for petty laws is an Albertan thing, haha.

 

[keegan]

um, that's fair mike_g thanks. sorry



Keegan

 

[joshua]

Isn't it prohibited to move any flora or fauna across state lines anyways unless approved by I think the FDA? I know in many states you're not allowed to own a plant or animal native to the state just because it's native to there, in Ohio you have to get a permit to own anything native.
Rules are constantly broken and everyone has broken some.

 

[edward]

Only if it is a agricultural pest, or an ESA species involved as part of a sale.

Some states have prohibitions on baby turtles with respect to salmonella but that is not enforced by any state I am aware of at this time.

Ed

 

[jeff]

Quite true Ed. I've seen quite a few "baby" red-eared sliders (Trachemys scripta) for sale in some of the sleazier pet shops I've been known to venture into from time to time. These sliders' carpace were no larger than 1 1/2". I believe california law is at least 4" carpace.

 

[joshua]

Jeff they get away with that because of the loop holes left. They can sell a turtle under 4" for scientific or educational reasons. They really need to update a lot of the laws regarding the pet trade, so many of them are outdated and or ignored.

 

[edward]

Hi Joshua,
This is a tricky request. It is easier to outlaw the animals totally than it is to regulate them.
It would be far easier to outlaw all chelonians regardless of size than it would be to close the loopholes in any other fashion. This would also make it economically feasible to enforce the regulations as anyone could see yep thats a turtle yep its for sale therefore it is illegal. (By the way the four inch rule was used as it was thought that a 4 inch turtle was too big for little kids to put them into their mouths.
This is the route that more and more jurisdictions are taking.

By the way, the 4 inch rule is a USDA rule not a state rule and there were also exemptions in it for serious hobbyists to allow for the exchange of breeding stock. For them to legally sell the turtles they would need to have a waiver that is signed by the purchaser listing that they are aware that it is against the law for baby turtles to be sold as pets and a salmonella warning.
Ed

 

[joshua]

I think the 4" law just needs to get tossed out, just have regulations on that with every turtle sold the buyer has to be made aware of the potential for salmonella. Of course anything could transmit salmonella, so maybe anyone buying anything should be made aware of it too.

By the way, what do you think of how the laws are written within the states in regard to owning native flora and fauna, I know in Ohio you have to have a permit to own any non-game animals and a fishing license to own any game animals. Even if it's captive bred and you can prove it they want you to have a permit for it, which is unfair in a way.

 

[edward]

I am only personally aware of the regs for two states, PA and NJ.
In PA, I only need a fishing liscence if I am going to collect any, if I get them from an out of state source, as long as they are not on the state's threatened or endangered list I am not restricted on the number of animals I can own with the exception of being illegal to possess the eggs of any native reptile regardless of the source (an example of how it is easier to legislate a total ban as opposed to other method). In PA you need to be aware of the regs on the local level as many boroughs/towns/counties have their own regulations on exotics.
In NJ, I can keep native herps with the exception of threatened and endangered species (excepting "albino" cornsnakes) as long as they are not collected in state as long as I apply for and get the nongame permit which is $10.00 a year.

Ed