Cycle Crash

[Pebble6852]

Hello, so about 5 days ago I got a new axolotl that wasn’t being taken care of so the girl sold him to me. Since then he has been doing great and his gills have grown quite back a lot, but today I woke up and his ammonia was at 1ppm. I immediately removed him from his tank and put him in some cold dechlorinated water but I do not know much about cycling and how to cycle a tank. Any help at all is appreciated. I was originally having trouble with nitrates being very high, so it’s hard to read if the cycle is working and they are increasing because the api kit was already reading near the max end of the colors. Last night I added some API quick start to the tank as well. Do I just need to let the tank sit until it’s fixed, or do I need to do any water changing? And how can I tell when the cycle has recovered

 

[wolfen]

do you have a bucket or tub big enough for the filter to go in with some tank water, if so put it in the bucket/tub allowing it to run (need to keep filter bacteria alive)
take plants out put in container with old tank water, take any ornaments out put in container with tank water (or wrap with moist/damp paper)
empty sand out and clean with tap water (to clear any debris), empty tank of water and give it a quick clean with only water, empty then refill with water, add dechlorinator, add sand, leave 24hrs (this is to make sure there is zero chlorine). after 24hrs add plants, ornaments, filter etc.. add filter start to the tank water, leave 1hr, add 4ppm ammonia leave 24hrs then test levels, top back up to 4ppm retest after 24hr then top up etc.. keep doing the top up/test until ammonia/nitrite levels are zero, keep an eye on the ph add bicarbonate of soda if it falls below 7 to bring it up to 7.4 - 7.6, use a tank heater to warm the water to speed up cycling, keep an air stone in the water as filter bacteria need oxygenated water, don't do a water change unless cycle complete or nitrates are 110ppm or higher.

 

[Pebble6852]

do you have a bucket or tub big enough for the filter to go in with some tank water, if so put it in the bucket/tub allowing it to run (need to keep filter bacteria alive)
take plants out put in container with old tank water, take any ornaments out put in container with tank water (or wrap with moist/damp paper)
empty sand out and clean with tap water (to clear any debris), empty tank of water and give it a quick clean with only water, empty then refill with water, add dechlorinator, add sand, leave 24hrs (this is to make sure there is zero chlorine). after 24hrs add plants, ornaments, filter etc.. add filter start to the tank water, leave 1hr, add 4ppm ammonia leave 24hrs then test levels, top back up to 4ppm retest after 24hr then top up etc.. keep doing the top up/test until ammonia/nitrite levels are zero, keep an eye on the ph add bicarbonate of soda if it falls below 7 to bring it up to 7.4 - 7.6, use a tank heater to warm the water to speed up cycling, keep an air stone in the water as filter bacteria need oxygenated water, don't do a water change unless cycle complete or nitrates are 110ppm or higher.

So basically just completely restart? Right now I only have one other tank which pebble is in, it’s a 10 gallon I think but it isn’t as big as I thought it was for him so I was going to go to the store and get a bigger tub to put him in. I can probably then fill the 10 gallon with his old tank water and run the filter in it. I can probably also fit all his plants in it. It’s not big enough for the ornaments so I would have to wrap them. Should I wash his tank with just tap water or old tank water? And how do I add ammonia, is that something I can buy? And when checking it will it go all the way from 4ppm to 0ppm in that 24 hours and that’s how I’ll know it’s done?

 

[wolfen]

the tank can be washed how ever you want, because the cleaning isn't due to contamination plain water will suffice, the reason for the cleaning etc.. is to reduce the nitrates down, with luck if the tank/filter was cycled to 4ppm originally it shouldn't take long to re-cycle it.
the easiest method to dose the ammonia is by using ammonia chloride, dr tims being the most popular.
once the ammonia has gone from 4ppm to 0 three days in a row, also make sure nitrite is zero as well, then a water change can be done and it's ready.

 

[Pebble6852]

the tank can be washed how ever you want, because the cleaning isn't due to contamination plain water will suffice, the reason for the cleaning etc.. is to reduce the nitrates down, with luck if the tank/filter was cycled to 4ppm originally it shouldn't take long to re-cycle it.
the easiest method to dose the ammonia is by using ammonia chloride, dr tims being the most popular.
once the ammonia has gone from 4ppm to 0 three days in a row, also make sure nitrite is zero as well, then a water change can be done and it's ready.

Okay thank you so much, I am at Walmart now getting him a bigger tub. Do you know of any good ammonium chloride alternatives? I called everywhere but that dr Tim’s is nowhere around me and I really want to get his tank back in order asap

 

[wolfen]

looking on walmart site they have powdered ammonium chloride in the garden section (any brand is fine provided it is ammonium chloride), no idea how much is needed to bring the ammonia to 4ppm so it would have to be trial and error, you will need small measuring spoons though.

 

[Pebble6852]

looking on walmart site they have powdered ammonium chloride in the garden section (any brand is fine provided it is ammonium chloride), no idea how much is needed to bring the ammonia to 4ppm so it would have to be trial and error, you will need small measuring spoons though.

Unfortunately Walmart doesn’t have any AC at all and I’ve called everywhere around me and no one has any so I may have to order it. If I do, should I just let my tank run with the bacteria I added yesterday? I bought a new 55L tub for him as well as an air stone for it, so he should be okay for a while. Would it be possible to start cycling my tank without the AC and just do a really large water change and sponge the sides clean to reduce nitrate instead of dismantling it? At least until I can get the AC from chewy. Also would it be worth filling up the tub I bought enough to add a mini filter that I have to his tub or is it better to just fully change his water every day, or both

 

[wolfen]

the ammonia chloride is food for the bacteria to encourage them to colonise the filter, bacteria can be added but without establishing themselves will die off.
better to do a full water change when tubbed.
using anything other than ammonium chloride as a source is quite messy (including axolotl poop)
if you only fill the tank so that the filter inlet is in the water then when you change the water for your axolotl switch the filter off and slowly pour the water into the filter so the water flow through the media (don't do it fast enough that it comes out of the outlet, from what I've seen from your previous photos the filter is a hob which when switched of the internal water level goes down causing reverse flow) switch back on when done, this will help cycle but at a lower level until you can get ammonium chloride.

 

[Pebble6852]

the ammonia chloride is food for the bacteria to encourage them to colonise the filter, bacteria can be added but without establishing themselves will die off.
better to do a full water change when tubbed.
using anything other than ammonium chloride as a source is quite messy (including axolotl poop)
if you only fill the tank so that the filter inlet is in the water then when you change the water for your axolotl switch the filter off and slowly pour the water into the filter so the water flow through the media (don't do it fast enough that it comes out of the outlet, from what I've seen from your previous photos the filter is a hob which when switched of the internal water level goes down causing reverse flow) switch back on when done, this will help cycle but at a lower level until you can get ammonium chloride.

I looked online and it said I can get the AC in about 3 days. Should I go ahead and completely empty his tank? I’m about to move pebble to his new tub, and I can put the filter and the plants and maybe his rocks in the other container he is in now along with the old aquarium water. Is that all I have to do? And then wash the sand and tank out and refill the tank completely with dechlorinated tap water?

 

[wolfen]

because there is ammonia in the water you can wait before emptying the tank or you can do it any time your ready.

 

[Pebble6852]

because there is ammonia in the water you can wait before emptying the tank or you can do it any time your ready.

Pebble update, he is doing well in his tub and the Dr Tim’s AC gets here tomorrow! I have started emptying his tank to get it filled with new water. I was reading over your original message about what to do, and do I need to put any of the old water in at all? I saw where you said to add the bacteria then leave it for an hour so I’m assuming they will survive for that one hour without any ammonia, and I’m adding completely new water to the tank?

 

[wolfen]

all water from the tank needs to be replaced, this is to start the tank nitrates from zero (unless there are nitrates in the tap water)
once the tank has been refilled with clean dechlorinated water allow to sit for 24hrs (the ammonia can be added at any time) after twenty four hours add filter and anything else that is required into the tank ie.. plants, ornaments etc.. , do not add filter etc.. unless the water in the tank has sat for 24hrs (this is because there is already a partial bacterial colony in the filter which can be harmed/destroyed by exposing it to an residual chlorine)
because the placing of filter will coincide with the receiving of ammonia adding bacteria will be fine (even without ammonia they will survive for a period of time)
when bacteria is added direct to a filter it is best to have it switch of for a period of time to allow the bacteria to settle and not be flush straight out.

 

[Pebble6852]

all water from the tank needs to be replaced, this is to start the tank nitrates from zero (unless there are nitrates in the tap water)
once the tank has been refilled with clean dechlorinated water allow to sit for 24hrs (the ammonia can be added at any time) after twenty four hours add filter and anything else that is required into the tank ie.. plants, ornaments etc.. , do not add filter etc.. unless the water in the tank has sat for 24hrs (this is because there is already a partial bacterial colony in the filter which can be harmed/destroyed by exposing it to an residual chlorine)
because the placing of filter will coincide with the receiving of ammonia adding bacteria will be fine (even without ammonia they will survive for a period of time)
when bacteria is added direct to a filter it is best to have it switch of for a period of time to allow the bacteria to settle and not be flush straight out.

Okay perfect!! My tap water does have a small amount of nitrate though I think, it was 5 or less so I assume that’s not an issue? Other than that I’ll update when I get the ammonia and hopefully everything is good!

 

[Edevingo]

Okay perfect!! My tap water does have a small amount of nitrate though I think, it was 5 or less so I assume that’s not an issue? Other than that I’ll update when I get the ammonia and hopefully everything is good!

What are the actual readings of your tank?
As someone that's been in the hobby for over 30 yrs, kept and bred African Cichlids alongside friends that are well know researchers and conservationists in the hobby, I've never in my life heard such extreme measures without knowing exactly what your numbers are besides 1ppm of ammonia.
Which could most likely be solved by tubing your axolotl, taking a deep breathe and finding out more information before breaking down an entire tank.
4ppm of ammonia is at the edge of poisoning your cycle.
Dr Tim's, even only suggest 2ppm of ammonia.

 

[wolfen]

What are the actual readings of your tank?
As someone that's been in the hobby for over 30 yrs, kept and bred African Cichlids alongside friends that are well know researchers and conservationists in the hobby, I've never in my life heard such extreme measures without knowing exactly what your numbers are besides 1ppm of ammonia.
Which could most likely be solved by tubing your axolotl, taking a deep breathe and finding out more information before breaking down an entire tank.
4ppm of ammonia is at the edge of poisoning your cycle.
Dr Tim's, even only suggest 2ppm of ammonia.

cichlids are fish not amphibians, I have also had over 30 yrs experience with fish ranging from coldwater to marine including cichlids, over 25 yrs reptiles, over 20 yrs amphibians (although nearly 40 if including catching amphibians as a child) and a lifetime with furry mammals.
just like you wouldn't treat a dog the same as a cat you can't treat amphibians the same as a fish.

 

[Pebble6852]

cichlids are fish not amphibians, I have also had over 30 yrs experience with fish ranging from coldwater to marine including cichlids, over 25 yrs reptiles, over 20 yrs amphibians (although nearly 40 if including catching amphibians as a child) and a lifetime with furry mammals.
just like you wouldn't treat a dog the same as a cat you can't treat amphibians the same as a fish.

Hey I haven’t been on in a while and I came back to post an update but it looks like there’s been a little discourse Either way I have already been adding the 4ppm for about 6 days now. My nitrates have risen to around 30 so im assuming this is working. And the ammonia has gone down what looks to be 1ppm or maybe less each day (sorry it’s hard for me to read the color sheets super accurately). Pebble has been rubbed and I change his water with every feeding, every poop, or every 24 hours. He has an air stone in his tub too.

 

[Pebble6852]

do you have a bucket or tub big enough for the filter to go in with some tank water, if so put it in the bucket/tub allowing it to run (need to keep filter bacteria alive)
take plants out put in container with old tank water, take any ornaments out put in container with tank water (or wrap with moist/damp paper)
empty sand out and clean with tap water (to clear any debris), empty tank of water and give it a quick clean with only water, empty then refill with water, add dechlorinator, add sand, leave 24hrs (this is to make sure there is zero chlorine). after 24hrs add plants, ornaments, filter etc.. add filter start to the tank water, leave 1hr, add 4ppm ammonia leave 24hrs then test levels, top back up to 4ppm retest after 24hr then top up etc.. keep doing the top up/test until ammonia/nitrite levels are zero, keep an eye on the ph add bicarbonate of soda if it falls below 7 to bring it up to 7.4 - 7.6, use a tank heater to warm the water to speed up cycling, keep an air stone in the water as filter bacteria need oxygenated water, don't do a water change unless cycle complete or nitrates are 110ppm or higher.

Hey! So I’ve been topping his ammonia to around 4ppm every day and each day I check and the ammonia is down to about 1ppm. I was just wondering A) That seems like a lot each day, does that mean my cycle is picking up? And B) my nitrates are climbing and somewhere around 40-80 both colors look very similar to me. I was just wondering when it gets to around 100 you said to do a water change, how much should I change? Other than that everything seems to be going well! (Side note I just thought of, when it is done do I need to do anything to lower the ph back down? It’s around 8 rn)

 

[wolfen]

if a large portion of ammonia is being converted then yes it is on it's way.
110ppm nitrates or higher, do a twenty five percent water change, very important to make sure the water has been dechlorinated before adding so as not to disturb the filter bacteria.
what is the tap ph?

 

[Pebble6852]

if a large portion of ammonia is being converted then yes it is on it's way.
110ppm nitrates or higher, do a twenty five percent water change, very important to make sure the water has been dechlorinated before adding so as not to disturb the filter bacteria.
what is the tap ph?

Tap water looks to be around 7.4

 

[wolfen]

with your tap water being 7.4 your tank ph should be fine once normal water changes resume after cycling.