Cost of keeping Axolotls as pets.

[argray90]

The attached image is what I have setup so far.

1. Ignore the insanely bright light - I am just keeping that help the duckweed grow until I get the Axolotls.

2. I need to find some hiding places and things for them to crawl around on. What would be the cheapest and best to use? I want to shy away from rocks simply because I feel large rocks and glass tanks full of water can result in fairly unfavorable situations.


3. Anything else I should be doing? Any special tricks to establish a good nitrogen cycle?


So far I have spent $0 on this, since I already had all the stuff but the three axolotls will cost me probably close to $65.

Tank looks like a good start as for your first question: You have several options for hides, build your own using tupperware, you can buy some clay pots (relatively cheap), buy driftwood, buy pvc. There are tons of options just make sure they do not have chemicals that will leak into the water.

For the next question you can cycle a tank a few ways, either fish cycling or fishless cycling. Here are a few articles on cycling a tank:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ups-filters-substrate/86249-cycling-tank.html

 

[Vesp]

Ok so at this point I have about 100 scuds, and maybe 50 little waterlouse ispod things in it.

I have added more hides also: 3 parts of a broken pot, with their sides rubbed off so its not sharp, and then also this curly round bark that sinks.


It has been filled with more water, the air stone has been in there bubbling for a few days, and I have a bright light on it to help my duckweed and string algae to get estabolished.

Many of the little scuds have died also. I've yet to clean them out since I think it will help with getting the tank to cycle.


I need to get a sponge filter, however. right?

Does Walmart typically sell sponge filters? Or foamy/fluffy sponges that I can use to make a sponge filter -- if I even *really* need one?



The air bubbles currently pass into the roots of the plant -- I hope this helps the plant grow as well as help the system cycle.

 

[argray90]

I found my sponge filters on either drsfostersmith.com or petmountain.com one of them had them for very cheap like $6 each.

 

[argray90]

Foam Aquarium Biological Filters: Azoo Oxygen Plus Bio-Filters

Here are the ones I have they come with the base, and 2 sponge filters so lots of life in them.

 

[Vesp]

Oh ok thank you.

I might just skip on it or build my own. I don't want to spend more money then I have too

 

[KingCam]

Lookin good, but I would remove that chunk of floating white wood and the white bark in the bottom. It looks pretty fresh to me, which means it's leaking tons of sap and tannins into the water (not great for your future axies).

I love using wood in the tanks, but you have to get the right kind. Go to a lake and collect some aged drift wood. Those pieces of wood have been soaking in a lake long enough to not have any sap left, and few tannins. They usually have been sun baked on the shore, also. When you get the wood home you can plop it right in (what I do) or if you're worried about critters coming out you can bake or boil the wood for a period of time to sterilize it.

Instead of using bark in the bottom, go collect some dried oak leaves. Make sure you get brown leaves that fell naturally from the tree in fall. You don't want green or colored leaves in there, just the brown crispy ones.

 

[Azhael]

Yeah, the birch (?) wood will decay and make a mess. Only certain types of wood are suitable, you can find excellent information about the subject here:
Caudata Culture Articles - Wood in Vivaria

The cost of maintaining a tank can be made pretty small indeed. Large, understocked, naturalistic tanks are the least demanding in every sense.
You can make a pretty decent sponge filter at home with some cheap basic stuff. However, abundant vegetation is sufficient. If you use a sponge filter, make sure that even though this type of fitler generally causes insignificant currents, you set the air flow to a level that doesn´t creat a strong current, too much agitation and a lot of noise. Axolotls much prefer completely still waters.

 

[Vesp]

Yeah it is birch and I kinda was hoping it would decay slowly without ruining the water. I want it there to give the Waterlouse and scuds a good source of food and shelter.

As it decays it shouldn't cause any problems right? It will just release tannins and various minerals into the water and help with the bacterial and algae ecosystem?


Do you think the bubbler bar I have in it right now causes to much circulation on one end of the tank?

Are you sure tannins are bad for them? I hear they are good for fish.

 

[KingCam]

As it decays it shouldn't cause any problems right? It will just release tannins and various minerals into the water and help with the bacterial and algae ecosystem?

Yes it is harmful for an axolotl to be in water with high tannin levels. Did you completely ignore my post?

Lookin good, but I would remove that chunk of floating white wood and the white bark in the bottom. It looks pretty fresh to me, which means it's leaking tons of sap and tannins into the water (not great for your future axies).

I love using wood in the tanks, but you have to get the right kind. Go to a lake and collect some aged drift wood. Those pieces of wood have been soaking in a lake long enough to not have any sap left, and few tannins. They usually have been sun baked on the shore, also. When you get the wood home you can plop it right in (what I do) or if you're worried about critters coming out you can bake or boil the wood for a period of time to sterilize it.

Instead of using bark in the bottom, go collect some dried oak leaves. Make sure you get brown leaves that fell naturally from the tree in fall. You don't want green or colored leaves in there, just the brown crispy ones.

 

[Vesp]

Nope but I have read on the forum it can be good for them in small quantities and with regular water changes it is fine.

 

[Azhael]

Really high tannin levels can be dangerous but moderate levels should not be a problem and may in fact have their benefits.
The problem with the birch wood is that it will decay relatively fast most likely causing a bacterial bloom (not necessarily of the kind of bacteria you´d want). Fungae will also explode eventually and that can be problematic too.
For the scuds and the Asellus it would be better to have a layer of dead leaves (apropriate species) as has already been suggested.
I have no idea how much of a current your current filtration produces, i would just keep it to a level that barely causes any movement so that most of the tank is close to being still.

 

[KingCam]

Nope but I have read on the forum it can be good for them in small quantities and with regular water changes it is fine.

-__- Yes. Small quantities of tannins are fine. But like I've said (three times now), your birch wood is too new to be put in the water. It is going to put off way more tannins and sap than you want in your water.

It looks pretty fresh to me, which means it's leaking tons of sap and tannins into the water (not great for your future axies).

See? Already said this.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Stick your axies in there and watch them suffer.

 

[Vesp]

I just wasn't sure of the amount that became toxic to them. So I was asking more detailed questions about it to get a better understanding of what is and what is not acceptable. Is there anything wrong with that? I wasn't ignoring you, I was just getting a better understanding of the situation.

In fact, what is the amount as a ratio of miligrams of tannins per liters of water for the threshold where it becomes undesirable and potentially toxic? Do you know or have any documented measurements of what levels are good or bad for them? or even for fish?
Any fish ever die from tannic acid?

I was under the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal since I was going to be cleaning it fairly often, and I read things such as this:

No amount of tannins is toxic. This isnt what killed your fish. I had fish in a tank i used to soak many pieces of wood that was black with tannins, you could not see the fish at all *L* The fish bred and continued on as normal.

If the wood is small enough pull it out an boil it, if not do more water changes, it will stop eventually.

The only thing bad about tannins is if you like a clear tank *L* Purigen/Macropore/Carbon will help with tannin removal. Water changes are the quickest and most effective though

--- Brown Water from Driftwood [Archive] - Aquarium Forum

But of course salamanders are not fish, and tannins are going to be different for each plant, and while it may not kill them it could still stress them. There are lots of factors at play, and this is why I ask questions, and then for further details.

It has been removed and they weren't in their very long so I am sure it is fine if not at the beneficial level.

Also, Oak leaves apparently also have high levels of tannins and tannic acid in them -- which is likely

The leaves and acorns of the oak tree are poisonous to cattle, horses, sheep, and goats in large amounts due to the toxin tannic acid, and cause kidney damage and gastroenteritis

Oak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But perhaps tannin levels are lower in dead oak leaves? Or perhaps higher? :S

 

[KingCam]

I just wasn't sure of the amount that became toxic to them. So I was asking more detailed questions about it to get a better understanding of what is and what is not acceptable. Is there anything wrong with that? I wasn't ignoring you, I was just getting a better understanding of the situation.

Nothing at all wrong with that. I just didn't see a question in the post I was responding to. I saw this, a statement:

Nope but I have read on the forum it can be good for them in small quantities and with regular water changes it is fine.

In fact, what is the amount as a ratio of miligrams of tannins per liters of water for the threshold where it becomes undesirable and potentially toxic? Do you know or have any documented measurements of what levels are good or bad for them?

I don't know exacts. Do I personally have any documents? No. I would imagine you could somehow find statistics on the lake they occur in naturally, which would tell you exactly how axolotls like their water.

I was under the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal since I was going to be cleaning it fairly often

I guess my question is, why would you want to clean it more than you have to? To remove the high levels of tannins coming from that wood I bet you would need to do like 50% water changes weekly, which is not the best for cycling a tank. And again, why would you want to do that? You could just use drift wood and only worry about doing 10% changes weekly.

and I read things such as this:

--- Brown Water from Driftwood [Archive] - Aquarium Forum

But of course salamanders are not fish, and tannins are going to be different for each plant, and while it may not kill them it could still stress them. There are lots of factors at play, and this is why I ask questions, and then for further details.

You're absolutely correct. Caring for fish is 100% different. They have an armor made of solid scales over their entire bodies. Axolotls have soft delicate skin that absorbs chemicals in the water.

It has been removed and they weren't in their very long so I am sure it is fine if not at the beneficial level.

Good deal.

Also, Oak leaves apparently also have high levels of tannins and tannic acid in them -- which is likely

Oak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But perhaps tannin levels are lower in dead oak leaves? Or perhaps higher? :S

Ounce for ounce, yeah they probably do have similar levels of tannins in them, but how many leaves would it take to equal that log? You'd probably have to fill the entire tank with leaves before you got enough to equal the weight/mass of that wood. I only use a couple of handfulls of leaves in a 45 gallon tank and do a 10-25% water change weekly. So far I've had no ill effects. The wood in my tank is aged driftwood.