Caudate Bar

[micstarz]

John, that's good then

It looks very promising!

 

[eyrops]

The final secret is buttermilk. I kid you not!

George doesn't mention buttermilk as far as I recall, but this book that I have owned for a few years is an excellent guide to growing moss:

Schenk, George, 1997. Moss Gardening: Including Lichens, Liverworts, and Other Miniatures, Timber Press, Portland, Oregon, USA, Cambridge, UK., 1997, 261 pp.

I find it interesting that despite all his other success he basically has given up on growing moss in indoor terrariums because of mold. I think several of us have actually had fair success at times in our terrariums so we are doing something right. I found sludgemunkey's suggestions to try moss from sunny places and to transplant it when it is dormant to be helpful. I will try that. I will also try the buttermilk mix dusting. I would like to share a couple of the reasons I suspect excess nutrients of favoring mold over moss. For years I tried to grow spaghnum moss only to have it get moldy and die after a few weeks. This is a bog plant that grows with its feet wet. Then I tried it all by itself in a glass container with enough water to keep it saturated but no soil at all. It grew very well. The other example is the setup I mentioned in a previous post that spontaneously sprouted moss, presumably from spores it had accumulated while it was outside. Here again there was no soil. the moss grew directly on the (artificial) rock. Also, I think I have had better success in terrariums without animals than in those with animals partly because the wastes favor mold. In these setups I just figure on replacing the moss now and then.
-Steve Morse

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Thanks for the book suggestion, I am going to have to try that one out!

I admit that I first heard of the buttermilk technique on...of all places...Mythbusters! That episode "A rolling stone gathers no moss" got me into researching this only to find out its a pretty commonplace practice among moss farmers.

I also agree with your live animal enclosure experience, however, I have seen a good many live moss enclosures that were very successful. I will note however, that all of them were for poison arrow frogs.

I have some more pictures of the set up I will post later today only to show the differences between the moss when it was installed dormant and now, a few days later when it is fully active. The growth on the two unidentified types I used here is simply astounding.

I am going to try out the natural germination technique on both real and artificial stone once the mosses in my yard start to spore cap. I am wondering if I can get the same results you did, as this "natural" method is preferable to me.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Here is some before and after shots of the moss.


Here is a shot of the moss, now active nearly a week later.

Notice the new green growth on the button moss. (I added a few bits more of the carpet moss shortly after the first picture was taken.


And just to show how tenacious moss can be, while out field herping I found the horrid little soap dish in the woods...covered in moss!

As you can see in this next shot, things are growing along nicely!

 

[eyrops]

That before and after of the moss is nice. It looks like it really takes to that flowing/seeping water.

-Steve Morse

 

[Gregh]

If you don't mind me asking, what do you use to mold that into the tank? does it have to be coated or is it water/resistant? however you did that it looks like a lot of fun to try out a less ambitious version.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Its the standard Great Stuff brand expanding urethane foam. Its water proof, easy to use and very cool to work with. I actually got the idea from this very site. I usually use real rock and the like, but weight quickly becomes an issue.

Here is the thread that I gleaned ideas from:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38607

There is a few more, but I recommend trolling through that section of the forums, there is a mountain of really great techniques and ideas there.


It is water proof all on its own, no sealer required. However there is quite a bit of trial and error to using it, as it expands rather randomly. There is also a bit of shrinkage once it is in water too, though I think this was due to a design flaw I made due to water weight and plant/soil weight.

This was the first time I used Great Stuff like this. My next project, I am going to create a basic framework of polystyrene foam sheeting first and apply the foam over top of that. Cracks formed in the surface which dried solid before the core of the thick parts did. I had to reseal those cracks with aquarium sealant to keep the water from draining into the voids left for planting.

Believe it or not, this really was a simple project- the painting technique makes it look like it takes for ever. 2 hours of prep and work to get the filter and foam in place. I let it dry overnight, then painted it (about 20 minutes of painting). I let the paint dry for 12 hours, then sealed it with a clear urethane spay coat and let that dry.

Practice with the foam a bit before you start on the tank. With any brand of spran foam, once you open a can, you have to use the whole thing or it seals itself shut and wastes the unused portion.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

UPDATE!

Here we are a few months later...


The caudate bar was a caudate fail.


It was however an Anuran win!

So here is the new home to 4 Bombina orientalis!

As you can see, it has grown in nicely. I also removed the one plant, it just was not doing well and more land area was needed.

As you can see, the moss took of beautifully, both the terrestrial and the java.

 

[Jennewt]

Nice! Lucky toads! You've gotten a very lush growth of moss in only a couple of months. Any tips on how to do this? This thread is a beautiful example of "build and age the setup first, then get the animals".

Some of the photos from your previous posts in this thread appear to have disappeared.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

The secret to the moss, both terrestrial and java is dirty fish tank water. To cycle the water feature in this set up, I merely used old water from the feeder goldfish tank colony. It has been running since March with a 12 on 12 off lighting cycle using standard T8 fluorescent tubes. The average temperature has been at 68F.

The terrestrial moss does extremely well under this lighting and by keeping it wet. By sheer accident, the water fall dribbles a bit on all sides, providing a constant seepage type environment. In my experience, java moss also does best with this lighting and temperature cycle.

The other secret is buttermilk baking mix and when the live moss was harvested. I harvested the terrestrial moss while it was still dormant, back in March. I dusted the rhizomes lightly with the buttermilk baking mix and put it in place. By harvesting dormant moss and moving it indoors, in combination with the slightly alkaline baking mix and the nutrient rich water, this triggers explosive growth.

I did let the water go low, and actually dry out the moss by evaporation for about a week back in May, then started using treated aged tap water once I started it back up. I really think that live temperate climate moss needs a few dry periods every so often to really get it going.


Java moss takes care of itself. It does not grow much without bright light. As soon as you add the lighting scheme I use, it doubles in size quarterly.

(Sorry about the missing pictures from earlier on, I have dumped Flikr as my photo storage and moved to Photobucket. Some pictures were lost in the transition.)