Question: Can you mix anything with axolotls in an aquarium?

[auntiejude]

OK, lets break this down:

The BASIC rule for axolotls, particularly for new owners, is that axies shouldn't be mixed with other species, unless it's food. Fish can nibble gills, axies will eat some species, so for a novice this is the rule they should follow.

If you have experience and want to try mixing axies with other animals thats up to you. Some 'prey' will survive for some time, such as river shrimp that are fast enough to escape a hungry axie, and as long as your axies are not stressed by their presence you can leave them. We've all read the 'species mixing disasters' page, and if you are willing to take the risk thats up to you - you'll be the one dealing with any injuries and they are your pets.

If you're considering mixing caudate species you need to be aware that many can hybridise. We already know that pet axies are actually an A. mexicanum/A. tigrinum hybrid, and that A.mexicanum and A.andersoni will breed, so from that point of view mixing species is not a good idea.

We also know that different species have different requirements, so keeping them all happy can be a big problem.

But species mixing is really an 'advanced axie keeping' subject, and newcomers may not understand the risks, so the standard advice of 'no species mixing' is still good. People who come here asking for advice are generally wanting the best for their new pet.

Remember - advice is just that - you are free to take it or leave it as you see fit. But don't be surprised if you come across a problem and get a whole bunch of 'I told you so' responses on here.

 

[allied123]

Yes Seth if you really want to point out that I didn't mention every specific animal that COULD be housed with an axolotl. I'm so sorry. Yes SOME THINGS can be mixed without much harm to either. It's just usually prey species for the axolotl. Even axolotls that have been together forever do nip each other sometimes.

And then calling out auntiejude and saying "I am all for the 'rule' most of the time, but it is simply frustrating to me when people say not to mix things and don't provide any reason" when I think her and I both gave several reasons. maybe you need to fully read things before you badmouth people.

I think Boomsloth said it pretty well, "Not that things can't get along but more about different habitats and environmental needs. Axolotls were top predator in the wild and only lived with small fish and crustaceans that were preyed upon. I'm sure there are species that they can exist with that will work it's just for the beginner axolotl owner it might not be wise to just say yes they can get along with some fish or say stories about "they never bothered each other" "

And auntiejude said exactly what I was thinking. That all this is just advice and opinions and this forum is more to give advice to newbies rather than argue between experienced keepers.

 

[Stacey87]

i do agree with what people are saying, as a new owner i would say just keep axies with axies, however i was just voicing my own experiences and saying that i have had other species in the tank, not as tankmates as such but they were mainly put in for the axies to eat if they caught them i.e small fish and shrimps.
like i said in my previous post, i have a 6 foot by 1.5 foot tank, which is quite heavily planted with lots of tunnels and caves and plenty hiding spots and in this monster tank i have three adult axolotls and two goldfish which have managed not to get eaten and they have been in that tank for 14 months now following a quarantine process, i AM NOT saying you SHOULD/NT mix species i was more just sharing my experience thats all.

 

[GlowingFauxPas]

If you're considering mixing caudate species you need to be aware that many can hybridise. We already know that pet axies are actually an A. mexicanum/A. tigrinum hybrid, and that A.mexicanum and A.andersoni will breed, so from that point of view mixing species is not a good idea.

Why is it bad to have them hybridize?

 

[Chinadog]

Why is it bad to have them hybridize?

Because you would inevitably get people trying to sell the hybrids as pure A. andersoni for ten times the price of a domestic axolotl.

 

[GlowingFauxPas]

Because you would inevitably get people trying to sell the hybrids as pure A. andersoni for ten times the price of a domestic axolotl.

Sorry for being dumb here.

A) Why would you assume that's true, rather than selling them as hybrids? I know someone who had a poodle-cocker spaniel mixture, and it was a good pet, and it was sold as a mixture.
B) Even if this is so, why is that a bad thing? A hybrid is more exotic than a non-hybrid axolotl, so isn't it reasonable to charge more?

 

[Jonjey]

Does the existence of mutt dogs cause pure bred dogs to go extinct? Does it cause pure bred dogs any problems whatsoever?

 

[Chinadog]

Because some people will do anything for money. A. andersoni are rare in the hobby at the moment and are sold for much, much more than pet trade/hobbyist bred axolotls. There are ways to tell pure andersoni apart from hybrids, but you would still get confusion and inexperienced/newcomers to the hobby being ripped off.
You've got me with the labradoodle/magnadoodle(?) thing, I don't know why people pay such a lot for mongrels.

 

[Chinadog]

Does the existence of mutt dogs cause pure bred dogs to go extinct? Does it cause pure bred dogs any problems whatsoever?

No, not as far as I'm aware. Anyway, mutts aren't hybrids,neither are pure bred dogs.

 

[keiko]

Part of the reason why hybrids aren't desired is that it's easy to sell them as purebreds which could then easily lead to whole breeding lines to be contaminated. It's different than dogs because with a purebred dog you'll get their registration papers and family trees, there's no such thing with caudates at least yet.

 

[sde]

Yes Seth if you really want to point out that I didn't mention every specific animal that COULD be housed with an axolotl. I'm so sorry. Yes SOME THINGS can be mixed without much harm to either. It's just usually prey species for the axolotl. Even axolotls that have been together forever do nip each other sometimes.

That was not how I meant it to be taken. I was not trying to critique you not listing every species, I was simply saying that there are some species that could potentially be mixed, potentially.

And then calling out auntiejude and saying "I am all for the 'rule' most of the time, but it is simply frustrating to me when people say not to mix things and don't provide any reason" when I think her and I both gave several reasons. maybe you need to fully read things before you badmouth people.

Firstly, me saying

"I am all for the 'rule' most of the time, but it is simply frustrating to me when people say not to mix things and don't provide any reason"

was not directed at either you or auntiejude, as I know that you gave reasons. It was to the general community here at Caudata.org, because there have been plenty of times when people say not to mix things without reason. It was my fault that I did not separate it so it would not look like it was at auntiejude.

And secondly, I am surprised that you say I am badmouthing you guys. That is not what I am trying to do at all! I am sorry if it came across that way, I did not mean it like that.

And auntiejude said exactly what I was thinking. That all this is just advice and opinions and this forum is more to give advice to newbies rather than argue between experienced keepers.

It wasn't always like that, but that is what it is now. I tend to forget that though, and as a result I tend to try and make more 'advanced' topics. But you're right, it is more for newcomers and stuff than anything else and I should try and be more aware of that.

OK, lets break this down:

The BASIC rule for axolotls, particularly for new owners, is that axies shouldn't be mixed with other species, unless it's food. Fish can nibble gills, axies will eat some species, so for a novice this is the rule they should follow.

If you have experience and want to try mixing axies with other animals thats up to you. Some 'prey' will survive for some time, such as river shrimp that are fast enough to escape a hungry axie, and as long as your axies are not stressed by their presence you can leave them. We've all read the 'species mixing disasters' page, and if you are willing to take the risk thats up to you - you'll be the one dealing with any injuries and they are your pets.

If you're considering mixing caudate species you need to be aware that many can hybridise. We already know that pet axies are actually an A. mexicanum/A. tigrinum hybrid, and that A.mexicanum and A.andersoni will breed, so from that point of view mixing species is not a good idea.

We also know that different species have different requirements, so keeping them all happy can be a big problem.

But species mixing is really an 'advanced axie keeping' subject, and newcomers may not understand the risks, so the standard advice of 'no species mixing' is still good. People who come here asking for advice are generally wanting the best for their new pet.

Remember - advice is just that - you are free to take it or leave it as you see fit. But don't be surprised if you come across a problem and get a whole bunch of 'I told you so' responses on here.

I agree, the rule is a really good one for newcomers, can't argue that.

I also agree that hybridization can occur and should be avoided.

Yes, newcomers may not understand the risks, so like you say, the standard advice is still good.


In summery, I am not trying to make anyone mad, offend anyone, or put anyone down etc.. I am just voicing my opinions. You can do the same. I was trying to make that clear in my previous post, but I suppose I didn't.
Please don't take this like I am trying to insult anyone or anything like that, as that is not at all what I am trying to do.
-Seth

 

[GlowingFauxPas]

Part of the reason why hybrids aren't desired is that it's easy to sell them as purebreds which could then easily lead to whole breeding lines to be contaminated. It's different than dogs because with a purebred dog you'll get their registration papers and family trees, there's no such thing with caudates at least yet.

Why did they mix species for axolotls, out of curiosity? If there's areason for that, wouldn't there be a reason for crossbreeding axolotls with andersoni? Though I guess I can't compare the situations without knowing the reason.

 

[auntiejude]

Axies were crossed with tigers to introduce the albino gene for research purposes. Axies have been crossed with andersoni by accident.

 

[xxianxx]

Axies have been crossed with andersoni by accident.

Nope, it was deliberate in my case

 

[Boomsloth]

Nope, it was deliberate in my case

What was the result? Which traits passed down?

 

[Jonjey]

What was the result? Which traits passed down?

From what I gathered from the thread about it, they were less aggressive and were perfectly healthy animals. I think one of them morphed.
And they killed most of them for no real reason.

 

[auntiejude]

And they killed most of them for no real reason.

What? No they didn't. They culled some - which is normal in some breeding methods. Some were distributed to trusted friends for raising.

 

[Jonjey]

What? No they didn't. They culled some - which is normal in some breeding methods. Some were distributed to trusted friends for raising.

They killed most of them, which is normal in some breeding methods, who knows why, and distributed the few that were left alive to trusted friends rather than just selling them all as hybrids which is perfectly ethical if one uses proper logic to determine ethics.

 

[rachel1]

I think the ethical dilemma is more that once hybrids are released into the hobby, you can't take it back. The ethics of the people who purchase your hybrids are beyond your control. If no one can tell the difference, and they could sell it as a $20 hybrid or a $150 rare salamander, the temptation of a quick buck could easily win out. I see it all the time with "maine coon" cats. People will try to pass anything off as a "maine coon" because they are more valuable. Obviously this is even more of an issue when there are very few morphological differences to determine whether the animal you are purchasing is what the seller says it is. This causes hobbyists to resort to wild caught animals, because it's impossible to tell if captive lines have been contaminated, and there is high demand for pure lines in the amphibian hobby. So hybridization can lead to a rise in demand for wild caught rare amphibians, which is the opposite of what most hobbyists are trying to promote. Hope that clears up some confusion.

 

[sde]

Amazing!

EXACTLY!!! Well said! And the part about the demand for WC animals going up is something I have never realized before.....

Great post.