C. pyrrhogaster (Yakushima?)

[ira]

they are bueatiful!

its been almost a year since the original post, any luck breeding them?

(Message edited by ira on July 02, 2005)

 

[pamela]

Lovely newts Tim. Ditto Ira.

 

[TJ]

Thanks. Well, seeing as I'm not trying to breed them yet, yes, I've have luck...luck in that they haven't bred yet

I have my hands full now with mostly Hynobius larvae morphs but also Cynops and Echinotriton andersoni. I want these C. pyrrhogaster to breed for me...but some other time.

The female on the left in that above pic has exceptional belly coloration in that the red is fluorescent. It's the same one as in these pics:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/20039.jpg

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/20106.jpg

 

[ira]

well if you ever have unwanted eggs....

 

[TJ]

Today, while cleaning tanks, I noticed I had a morph (I never realized I had larvae!), my first from this group. Much redder than I am used to seeing with my other C. pyrrhogaster morphs.

 

[TJ]

I've been giving this morph special attention and it's coming along fine, readily eating wax worms, frozen bloodworm, and possibly pinheads. It may have gone some time without food before I first discovered it.

Ira, I will keep you in mind for future eggs from these guys

(Message edited by TJ on October 20, 2005)

 

[henk]

This strain is very beautifull Tim...I really love the color of their bellies here...

 

[terry]

Once again a wonderful treat from the land of the fire bellied newts! Thanks for the photos Tim! Wonderful!

Regards Terry.
( I am honestly feeling envious and regretful right now that I am not back in asia...sigh)

 

[TJ]

Thanks guys. Well, it still hasn't been proven that C. pyrrhogaster exists where these newts are said to be from, but I'm pleased to raise them regardless of their origin.

Regarding what Jen was asking earlier about their race, well, I would guess they're similar to those in Kyushu, which used to be lumped together as all being of the "Hiroshima race" before it was found that those in southeastern Kyushu (if I recall correctly) are genetically distinct (to a significant extent) from those elsewhere on the island. I'll have to dig up some reports to clarify this, though Paul, Ralf, Nate etc. may know offhand).

I had informed a European herpetologist who was going to Yakushima of this matter, who expressed great enthusiasm, but he subsequently blew off our meeting in Tokyo without any notice and never even bothered to report back on his findings...

Terry, you may be away from Asia, but I imagine you have a better chance of coming across newts originating in Northeast Asia by being in the Netherlands than back in Malaysia, if that's where you're from

If you were interested in anurans and other herps, it'd be a different story though...

(Message edited by TJ on October 22, 2005)

 

[terry]

Tim:
Is'nt it odd to be so far away from home and not only longing it but encountering species from home I will never encounter if i were back home.

Malaysia has no caudates that I could remember. I once worked in a Hill station in Fraser's Hill and studied amphibians of cloud forests. A lot of Anurans and Caecilians but caudates? Nada. Malaysia may be rich in Anura but if I were to look for Caudata? I'll have to travel north to the border: Thailand. It's surprising as well as dismaying that a place as rich as Borneo hardly has any Caudate species. Somebody has got to find at least something!.

Nevertheless my chances of encountering asian Caudates here has been good since the great majority of exotics hail from my "neck of the woods" so to speak. Probably one of the reason's why I moved to Europe

. Two birds with one stone. I get to study European species as well as asian ones in one place...

Now about that Hynobius group...

 

[TJ]

Here's a new and improved belly photo of this baby since it looked so skinny and miserable in the last one:

Terry, yeah, it'd be cool if somebody were to discover a species of salamander in the heights of Borneo, if not in the jungle itself. I'd like to read a study as to why some parts of the world have them and some don't. Guess they simply don't survive long journeys at sea as well as frogs after catastrophic land submergence episodes

It's fascinating even to study why some islands of Japan have newts or snakes like the "habu" and some don't. That's why it'd be really, really intriguing if indeed Yakushima has C. pyrrhogaster that are there naturally and historically.

(Message edited by tj on November 15, 2005)

 

[TJ]

 

[terry]

Now that, Tim has got to be one of the cutest newtlet photos posted by you! Endearing to say the least!

Tim, There are many factors to a species'occurence in a specific geographical location. Certain species are known to be endemic to a certain area and thrive while elsewhere in the world they do not. And vice versa? Something not often found or almost endangered in it's homeland seem to thrive elsewhere in prolific numbers? I often wondered to myself as to why are there so many frogs in comparison to newts and salamanders in my country. Its probable that there was too much competition within the species ( my speculation). Perhaps a long time ago there were a species of newt or salamander in Malaysia but they were wiped out due to reasons yet unknown? Predators? Unable to evolve and adapt quickly?

A good candidate would be Australia and it's unique flora and fauna. The only island ( amongst others) with a totally unique variety of primitive wildlife. Something unchanged and/or no need for change. Being so isolated has it's advantages...and it's limitations.

Japan: There are so many questions I just wish to ask about the different endemic species, the different races and the morphological differences within a species alone! One has got to start somewhere!

Back to C. pyrrhogaster. The species in itself is intriguing indeed but to learn how many races a single species can have, or how they even occur naturally in the wild? This will always remain a mystery for me...and a lovely mystery to solve one day.

 

[TJ]

Terry, referring to Australia as an "island" could get you in big trouble with our axoltl-hugging mates from Down Under!

Granted the wildlife there is pretty unique, but take note that wallabies can be found on New Guinea as well, and some marsupials are found in North America too

Peninsular Malaysia, at least, is generally so sweltering hot and muggy, it's hard to imagine a place with such a climate sustaining salamanders, except for perhaps some of the hill retreat areas (I've spent altogether several months there myself). But then hey, if Central America can support sals -- and tree-climbing ones at that! -- then sure, why not Malaysia. It gets about as hot and muggy in the summer in some parts of Okinawa that support C. ensicauda popei.

But back to the topic of this thread, the UNESCO inscription for Yakushima informs us that this amazing little island hosts more than 1,900 species and subspecies of flora, 94 of which are endemic (more than 200 species are at the southern limit of their natural distribution and a number are at their northern limit). It has 4 endemic mammal subspecies, including the Japanese macaque Macaca fuscata yakui and sika deer Cervus nippon yakushima. A further 4 subspecies are endemic to both Yakushima and the neighboring island of Tanegashima, including Apodemus speciosus dorsalis (a kind of rodent). There are also 15 reptile species, 8 amphibian species (9 if C. pyrrhogaster is confirmed to be there!) and some 1,900 insect species.

 

[terry]

Wow Tim! It is amazing that a little Island like that could support a wide biodiversity! What are the other amphibian species in that 8? ( skip the anurans). Is there an article I could refer to?

Well yes i know the Americas have their share of possums and New Guinea it's wallabies. I was merely looking for an example of a landmass and isolation resulting in the preseverance/ occurance of certain species.

(Message edited by terryschild on November 15, 2005)

 

[TJ]

Hmmm...challenging question as I don't know offhand, but I think they're all anurans. Let's see here....Hyla japonica, Rana tagoi yakushimensis, Bufo japonicus japonicus...and five more

I'm not aware of there being any caecilians in Japan.

Yakushima is only about 500 sq. km, so it's sure got a lot of biodiversity for it's size. Alas, I'll probably never visit there if it turns out there are no newts to observe. I haven't seen much detailed info around about it in English. But since it's a World Heritage Site, there must have been be mountains of research material created in advance of its submission. I've got the odd document at home somewhere, but it's all stuff that's freely available on the Web...

By the way, I seem to recall that New Guinea was once a part of the Australian continent that later broke off. In fact, I used to keep a wholly aquatic "pig-nosed turtle" (Carettochelys insculpta), and it's found both on New Guinea and in parts of northern Australia, only.