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C. pyrrhogaster (Yakushima?)
- Thread starter TJ
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Yakushima is otherwise known as Yaku Island ("shima" meaning "island").
(further south of Yakushima, across the zoogeographically significant Tokara Gap, lie the Amami and Okinawa island groups, which constitute the range of C.ensicauda)
(Message edited by TJ on August 05, 2004)
P
paul
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Great newts Tim!
Are they different to those from south Kyushu?
What’s their total length?
Paul
Are they different to those from south Kyushu?
What’s their total length?
Paul
TJ
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Hehe, I figured that by dangling this tasty worm in the water, I'd get a bite from Paul and/or Ralf in short order
Paul, they're smallish, around the same size as those from southern Kyushu. Since they're all around the same size, I am guessing this is the average adult size for the group on this island. I'll get you some measurements later
I haven't yet assessed the differences and I intend to solicit some observations from some Japanese hobbyists who know far more than I. But what I can say offhand is that one apparent difference is that the belly coloration on some individuals of this group tends toward orange/yellow like C. ensicauda does. Somebody commented that they might be related to C. ensicauda, but I wouldn't conclude the genetic distance them is smaller than that between C. ensicauda and other C. pyrrhogaster races just by virtue of geographical proximity, especially considering that C. ensicauda is genetically closer to C. pyrrhogaster sasayamae than it is to the Kyushu C. pyrrhogaster, if my memory serves me right.
The individuals I photographed above are not among those with the belly coloration resembling C. ensicauda. I'll put up some pics of those ones later
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
Paul, they're smallish, around the same size as those from southern Kyushu. Since they're all around the same size, I am guessing this is the average adult size for the group on this island. I'll get you some measurements later
I haven't yet assessed the differences and I intend to solicit some observations from some Japanese hobbyists who know far more than I. But what I can say offhand is that one apparent difference is that the belly coloration on some individuals of this group tends toward orange/yellow like C. ensicauda does. Somebody commented that they might be related to C. ensicauda, but I wouldn't conclude the genetic distance them is smaller than that between C. ensicauda and other C. pyrrhogaster races just by virtue of geographical proximity, especially considering that C. ensicauda is genetically closer to C. pyrrhogaster sasayamae than it is to the Kyushu C. pyrrhogaster, if my memory serves me right.
The individuals I photographed above are not among those with the belly coloration resembling C. ensicauda. I'll put up some pics of those ones later
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
P
paul
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Tim, thanks for information!
I saw the worm, so I was pushed to snap it.
Now I'm waiting full expectation on the yellow-belly pics
Paul
I saw the worm, so I was pushed to snap it.
Now I'm waiting full expectation on the yellow-belly pics
Paul
TJ
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The males and females are easy to tell apart just by the prominent sheen on the body males, this one for instance:
(female in background)
(Message edited by TJ on August 06, 2004)
(female in background)
(Message edited by TJ on August 06, 2004)
N
nesaraj
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Very nice newts!
TJ
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Here's another male:
I'm told that the Kagoshima prefectural government's Red Data Book says that recent surveys have failed to confirm the rumored presence of C. pyrrhogaster on the island and suggests that previous reports to the contrary are mistaken. Part of the island is protected as a World Heritage Site. I'm told that these newts come from the other part. I'll definitely attempt to breed them in collaboration with a couple of other hobbyists who now have a pair or two
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
I'm told that the Kagoshima prefectural government's Red Data Book says that recent surveys have failed to confirm the rumored presence of C. pyrrhogaster on the island and suggests that previous reports to the contrary are mistaken. Part of the island is protected as a World Heritage Site. I'm told that these newts come from the other part. I'll definitely attempt to breed them in collaboration with a couple of other hobbyists who now have a pair or two
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
J
joseph
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Will these guys ever cross the pond? You guys in Japan are lucky!
J
jennifer
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Tim - what 'race' of C.p. would these be considered?
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Hi Jen.
I've since been told by three leading Japanese herpetologists, to whom I showed the pictures at a recent conference, that these newts are unlikely to have actually come from Yaku Island (Yakushima). One of them was particularly adamant about that, saying that the island's fauna and flora were extensively surveyed in advance of its being inscribed as a World Heritage Site in 1993. Still, the person I got them from says they came from somebody trustworthy who went there on a tour and acquired them in a non-protected zone of the island. They were not sold elsewhere nor for an astronomical price, and there were only a dozen or so to begin with, so deception seems...well, lets just say I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until evidence to the contrary becomes overwhelming
There are other reports of C. pyrrhogaster having been found south of Japan's southernmost main island Kyushu in the Tokara Islands, north of the Tokaga Gap (a zoological boundary), but from what I hear, these were likely newts that were brought from the main islands as pets, and which then were released or escaped. There's a similar situation in Japan's northernmost main island, Hokkaido, where wild C. pyrrhogaster have been found despite this island not being within their natural range.
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
I've since been told by three leading Japanese herpetologists, to whom I showed the pictures at a recent conference, that these newts are unlikely to have actually come from Yaku Island (Yakushima). One of them was particularly adamant about that, saying that the island's fauna and flora were extensively surveyed in advance of its being inscribed as a World Heritage Site in 1993. Still, the person I got them from says they came from somebody trustworthy who went there on a tour and acquired them in a non-protected zone of the island. They were not sold elsewhere nor for an astronomical price, and there were only a dozen or so to begin with, so deception seems...well, lets just say I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until evidence to the contrary becomes overwhelming
There are other reports of C. pyrrhogaster having been found south of Japan's southernmost main island Kyushu in the Tokara Islands, north of the Tokaga Gap (a zoological boundary), but from what I hear, these were likely newts that were brought from the main islands as pets, and which then were released or escaped. There's a similar situation in Japan's northernmost main island, Hokkaido, where wild C. pyrrhogaster have been found despite this island not being within their natural range.
(Message edited by TJ on October 01, 2005)
