Bloat in a C. orientalis larva

C

christina

Guest
So far I've had 15 larvae hatch (100% hatch rate so far, another 30 eggs that appear fertile), all seemed healthy until today.

The 15 larvae (all roughly the same size) are housed in a small plastic "Critter Keeper" with about 4cm of water. There is live java moss, and they have been fed ostracods until today (just got my shipment of lots of little feeders). About 50% of the water is changed daily, and once a week I change about 75% of the water at once.

This morning while feeding I noticed a tadpole with a distended abdomen that looks clear, distinct from the yolk:
53927.jpg


I separated him from the rest so that I can watch him closely. If this isn't infectious (I really hope it isn't), what else could cause this? I have my fingers crossed that it isn't a pathogen causing this.

If infection is the only possibility that comes to mind, what is the best course of action to take with larvae? Full enclosure change? I do have the means to do a culture and sensitivity from the bloat if it's a fluid, but how would antimicrobial treatment fare with larvae?

Anywho, let me know your thoughts on this one.

Christina
 
I currently have an older Cynops larva with the same problem. My guess is that it's a random genetic problem - poorly functioning liver or kidneys, or some metabolic problem. If it were infectious, it would probably affect more than one individual by now. If you want to try treating it you can, but I would bet it will die one way or the other.

Here is the best photo I could get of my bloated larva. I have not bothered to isolate it from the others. It has been this way for several days.

54153.jpg
 
I've experienced this same thing on occasion, and they invariably die in my experience, sometimes after ballooning to almost impossible proportions. Sad thing to watch.

I've changed your thread title to read "larva" instead of "tadpole" as newt larvae are not the same thing as tadpoles
wink.gif


{ME taddepol < tadde, toad + poll, head, hence toad that seems all head}
<font color="ff0000"><font size="-2">(source: Webster's New World College Dictionary)</font></font>

(Message edited by TJ on February 20, 2006)
 
I have had this occur in some tadpoles which on necropsy showed a heavy nematode load.


Ed
 
Were those wild-caught tadpoles, Ed? I'm wondering if it's possible for them to pick up nematodes in captivity.
 
No, they were captive bred Smilisca phaeota. Only a small percentage of the tadpoles in each clutch would develop in this fashion.

It is possible for captive bred and hatched animals to aquire parasite loads in captivity.

Ed
 
My bloated larva is still alive, and I got some better photos today.

54611.jpg


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54613.jpg
 
Wow, poor thing. So that's gas in there, not liquid. right? I wonder if that is treatable somehow by a vet...
 
(I've been absent from forums for a bit... I didn't keep up with this thread that jumped back to life!)

The bloated larva ended up dying about a week later, I should have saved the body to do a smear from its GI tract but I didn't.

I've also had one larva hatch with notable scoliosis... I euthanized it.

Two bad ones out of the bunch isn't bad so far!
 
"Had?" Did you lose it?

I was thinking an extremely fine needle could perhaps be used to extract the liquid, if that's what it was. But given the delicacy of larvae, that would probably kill it.

Has anybody had larvae develop this condition and survive?

(Message edited by TJ on November 11, 2006)
 
I was thinking of trying to aspirate fluid from the larva's distended abdomen. But, I wasn't certain if it was fluid or gas, and considering the size of the larva I don't think the smallest gauge needle I have access to (27 and 1/2) wouldn't cause lethal trauma to it.

I regret not aspirating post-mortem and doing a culture (if fluid) to see if it was infectious (although doubtful since it was the only larva affected).
 
Ah, facing this problem once again
uhoh.gif


73152.jpg


This particular C. ensicauda larva is quite special to me, especially as it has gone a long, long time without morphing...

The last time this happened, the poor larva stayed alive for a couple weeks while the ballooning increased day after day to a grotesque size before it finally died. It was quite pitiful to see, and I wish I had put it out of its misery earlier.

I wonder if aspiration is possible...
 
I'm told by my vet that it can be done. The results will be interesting to see. Anybody (Frank? Ed?...) tried this with larvae with any success before? For some discussion about aspiration of fluid buildup in an African dwarf frog, see these threads over at Flippers n' Fins:

http://p076.ezboard.com/fflippersnfinsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=642.topic
http://p076.ezboard.com/fflippersnfinsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=668.topic
http://p076.ezboard.com/fflippersnfinsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=726.topic
http://p076.ezboard.com/fflippersnfinsfrm13.showMessage?topicID=820.topic

There was a link in there to this related article Information to the "balloon disease" (Hydrops) of african dwarf frogs:

http://www.microgravity-systems.com/hymenochirus/englishversion/hydrops_eng.htm

And of course there's our own Ed's article Bloat in Newts over at Caudata Culture:

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/bloatEDK.shtml

(Message edited by TJ on November 13, 2006)
 
Hi Tim,

We have aspirated fluid out of frogs that weighed about 1.5 grams...

Immediate placement in hypertonic amphibian ringers is one of the immediate things that we do here until the aspirate has been checked for bacteria... Once the fluid retention is down we then place the amphibian into isotonic amphibian ringers. (regardless of the type the ringers solution is replaced daily). We have maintained amphibians like this for well over 30 days with some pretty spectacular results (and occasional failures).

Ed
 
If you had a commercial pre-made ringers, could you just evaporate it down (I'm thinking low heat on a stove) to 75% of original volume to make the hypertonic solution?
 
If you are referring to ringer's for mammals then if I remember correctly the concentrations of the dissolved salts are different so you will have a different hypertonic salt solution than the hypertonic amphibian ringers.

Ed
 
73223.jpg


73224.jpg


73225.jpg
 
Wow, that's an awful lot of fluid. Any after shots? Hats off for attempting such a procedure, Tim. What sort of success rate did you have Ed? I would have thought that the fluid was a symptom and removing it wouldn't be a cure. Could it be anything other than organ failure?
 
Hi Mark,

It is a symptom but removing the fluid and then maintaining the animal in either iso or hypertonic amphibian ringers takes pressure off of the organs and allows the animal to osmoregulate more easily (reducing caloric burden) which can then result in the causative reason being resolved.

As a gut response between 30 and 40% success rate for all amphibians we've tried it with.

Ed
 
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