Before I begin construction.....

[brikag]

I have a questions about Hydroton (leca), the clay ball substrate.

1.) How heavy are they? Example: covering an average 10 gallon tank w/ an inch of the clay balls. 10 oz? 10 pounds?

2.) Over time, will they eventually form into a solid brick later on down the road?

3.) Over time, will they become brittle and break-off into little pieces?

Just curious. I'm looking at alternatives. I may have found one.

Thank you for your attention.
Brian

 

[Otterwoman]

I bought a bag of them last year and I think depending on how thick you pile them it might be 5 or 6 pounds, but that's an estimate. Maybe it might even be ten. I've ben using them in one tank only and I am confident in saying they won't turn into a brick, but they might break over time. I've noticed that some of mine are broken, though I can't say for sure if it happened before I put them in (say, in transit in the bag) or since they've been in the little tank.

 

[bewilderbeast]

I have used expanded clay pellets extensively for vivarium and gardening.

1. They are very light... much lighter than any kind of gravel. In fact, sometimes they float, which can be a pain in the ***...

If you lay them down as a bottom layer with gravel over it and then add water the lighter pellets have a way of floating to the top... this is eady to fix if you simply put a layer of plastic screen or netting on top of the hydroton.

They will never "combine" to make a brick... they are like little pebbles.

they are very very dirty when you buy them... they need lots and lots of rinsing and boiling before you can use them with animals... they leach clay dust leaving you with milky reddish soup...


They are one of the best things you can use if you are trying to grow live plants in a vivarium... they absorb water but leave enough drainage (they were designed for this)...

 

[bewilderbeast]

wow, I must have been tired when I typed that last one... excuse all the type errors..

 

[monkeyfrogman28]

I love useing that stuff. They are perfect to hide pumps and what not and allow plants to grow roots really well. I prefer useing it.

 

[brikag]

The reason why I'm asking is that the alternative I came up with was solid plastic balls. They're FDA approved b/c they are used for not only for surgical purposes but for piercings as well. No Leaching! A question for clarification, is it beneficial for a porous under laying (feather-lite) than a smooth surface under laying (plastic balls)? Just curious before I make my final decision. I'm still torn......

Thanks for all your previous responses!

 

[bewilderbeast]

I'm not sure what the plastic balls you are talking about are, but I can say that having a porous layer can be beneficial in a couple ways...

If you are growing plants or moss, the expanded clay will create a better matrix for root growth, and help draw moisture in without becoming too wet. Plastic balls may be able to distribute moisture through capillary action, but I don't know for sure.

Another thing is that the clay pellets probably support the growth of bacteria more easily than smooth plastic balls. depending on how you look at it, this could be good or bad.

My personal opinion is that plastic would be easier to clean than clay pellets but the clay pellets are designed for this kind of application. Plus if you dump some in your yard accidentally (as is bound to happen) you aren't contributing to the plastic waste stream.

 

[brikag]

I'm not sure what the plastic balls you are talking about are, but I can say that having a porous layer can be beneficial in a couple ways...

If you are growing plants or moss, the expanded clay will create a better matrix for root growth, and help draw moisture in without becoming too wet. Plastic balls may be able to distribute moisture through capillary action, but I don't know for sure.

Another thing is that the clay pellets probably support the growth of bacteria more easily than smooth plastic balls. depending on how you look at it, this could be good or bad.

My personal opinion is that plastic would be easier to clean than clay pellets but the clay pellets are designed for this kind of application. Plus if you dump some in your yard accidentally (as is bound to happen) you aren't contributing to the plastic waste stream.

HAHAHA....don't worry about me dumping plastic in the yard. I'm a greenie!

Any ways. Let me "back-pedal" for a moment. The reason for all these questions about clay and plastic balls is a weight issue. The terrarium tank I just purchased is huge. The glass is 3/8" thick. I have purchased books and read a lot of forums (I like this forum group the best). My thinking is trying to keep it light weight as much as possible. We live in a condo, but we're planning to move in the next 2-3 years. Another reason is that we live in "Earthquake" country, and I would have to strap this "puppy" down in case of such scenario.

That's why I'm asking all these questions. Weight and function is the priority for construction. Everything from the under laying to the lighting system (that's another discussion). As well as the beneficial health of the herps is a must!. I started all my research back in Jan 09. We just received our terrarium last week. I haven't touched it yet. I want to get my ducks in a row before the Big Build. I'll be purchasing a separate, but much much smaller, tank for quarantine purposes.

Thanks for your attention guys!
Brian

 

[SludgeMunkey]

I think I have a simple solution for your bottom drainage layer on in your project. I well remember my years in earthquake country. This is a trick I though I stole from the San Diego Zoo Reptile house, however years later I find out it is a pretty common practice! (Got to go to one of those after hours events...instead of sitting through the tourist stuff, I went over and watched them clean herp enclosures for a few hours...)

We discussed it a while back in this thread.


The egg crate I am referring to is that white plastic grid you see on all the lighting in offices and schools and such.

I bet a version of that method would solve your drainage and weight issues easily.

 

[brikag]

I think I have a simple solution for your bottom drainage layer on in your project. I well remember my years in earthquake country. This is a trick I though I stole from the San Diego Zoo Reptile house, however years later I find out it is a pretty common practice! (Got to go to one of those after hours events...instead of sitting through the tourist stuff, I went over and watched them clean herp enclosures for a few hours...)

We discussed it a while back in this thread.


The egg crate I am referring to is that white plastic grid you see on all the lighting in offices and schools and such.

I bet a version of that method would solve your drainage and weight issues easily.

WOW!!! My head is hurting! hehehe

Seriously....I thought of that a while back and for some reason I dismissed it for some reason. I can not remember this time. But, now, that I have read the link you gave, I'm rethinking this whole under laying again! Hmmmmmmmmm.....

I haven't touched the tank like I mentioned. I just wanted to do this in a correct manner, so I wouldn't have to dig it up later because I did something wrong. I know some of you will say they're fool proof, but I'm the most unlucky person in the world. I'm surprised I didn't put a crack in the tank yet (Knock on Wood!)!

But I would like to thank everyone for your information. If there was something that was missed out in the previous posts, please feel free to chime in a few words. I'll just go to my corner and huddle in the fetal position and suck my thumb!

My head is going to implode!

Thanks!

 

[bewilderbeast]

that is exactly how I use them I put down inch or so risers that the plastic grid sits on top of... any pump intakes are set beneath this "false bottom"... then I cut a foam pad (the kind that go into aquarium filters) and lay this down over the plastic grid and around any wires and tubing. Then you add your expanded clay pellets and gravel...

this system really is top notch as you can have water flowing through the tank and not have the substrate bogged down by too much moisture.

Here is a picture of a tank I set up with just such a false bottom... the intake for the pump is underneath the planted section (complete with expanded clay pellets) and the output jet is on the opposite side, giving the water a little current and also pulling waste towards the planted area where it can be absorbed and filtered naturally. the risers on this one are a taller than is needed.

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Excellent example of the false bottom method Bewilderbeast!

I also like how your used the clay pellets to prevent anaerobic bacterial action from happening in the land section. While myself and others here often reccomend you do not use gravel to make land by mounding it up, this solution to the problem is as elegant as it is simple.