Are we wasting our time?

From the pics he sent me they look like Alpestris...I was thinking about getting a pair...He says they are Cb and Said they were only 2.5 inches...Im thinking it might not be as shady as most dealers...


Ric P, Lol
 
$30.00 apiece for alpestris is pretty steep though. If you're just looking for triturus in general Hayden, e-mail me on the side.
 
With the Spanish fire salamanders I think he's aiming at S. bernardezi. They are so far the only European subspecies that is truly live bearing. S. fastuosa has also been known do have some live bearing occur.
The black one sure looks like atra or lanzai... but they are not easy to care for at all. so unless you are well equipped or have too much money ...
With such a prices on Triturus species I may start to consider myself a millionaire... I have a good group of alpestris living in my garden (and that's where they'll stay )

Well once more the easy of latin names becomes apparent... Would love to see those wehrlei's...
 
Be smart and just ignore it. Try to get as many people into this site and they get the animals from breeders for normal prices...sad for the animals though.
 
Thanks Michael Graziano,....
I was a little surprised too, when i read, what people go mad on here, and what they ignore or don't see as a problem,....Waisting your time?
-definitely,.....
Greets,
 
He also was willing to let them go at 20 bucks a piece if I bought all 3...I dont think its that shady...I agree Its not like buying from a hobbyist and It is a big risk...But I dont think Its like buying from a petstore or anything like that...And I can absolutely see what you guys are talking about...But I think its all about circumstance
 
As much as I hate commercial dealers, this guy must be a bit better if his animals are captive bred. Obviously, one should avoid the wc animals from the list, but if he's offering cb juvies, I'd rather see Hayden support him than most of the dealers on kingsnake.
 
Hayden, the money you send him will go for his purchasing of more poached/wild-caught/illegally imported/however you want to word it- animals. There is no reason to purchase animals from a totally shady dealer just because they're cheap. if you agree that it's a big risk, how is that NOT shady?
 
I agree with what has been said above. Note that in the case of tarantulas, sometimes adults are imported and then labeled as CB...just because they say so doesn't always mean they are.
 
I'm sure some of you can remember the "Captive bred West Virginian Sirens. . . "
 
There is no money being sent to him...Im no longer getting the animals...It was also Iffy If I was in the first place(lack of funds and Im not willing to take the risk of getting ripped off) I am naive I guess in believing it could be Legit...I was just saying that...Well, there was a chance at being legit...But a chance not worth risking...Especially the imaginary names...I sent him an email asking for pictures of the rest... I am clueless as to what some of these animals are...

Hayden

P.s. Pete I do remember the WV sirens:D
 
Although Hayden didn't buy them, I'll bet you a million dollars someone else who read about them here did. There have been at least two other times that I have seen someone post "look how bad this is" and then found out later that someone else acted on that information and bought the animals in question.

When I see someone post something like "look what they're selling over on site XYZ" I really feel like deleting it. But so far I have resisted the urge to.

On this forum, we have a sort of "informal suppression" of certain kinds of information. If someone posts exact locality information, for example, we delete it and encourage them not to share this information.

What do readers feel about this kind of suppression of discussion of "dealers" of WC animals?

(I should add that I support freedom of speech. The question is whether this is a case where limiting free speech is justified.)
 
limiting free speech in order to help the hobby and save animals is a good idea, Jen. I'm with you.
 
Jen,
One of the most prevalent factors that draws me to this site is the incredible amount of information that can be found here. Maybe it's the liberal in me but I would hate the thought of any of this information being suppressed because someone else thinks that it would be in the animals' best interest. I have no doubt that caudata.org will ever endorse any sort of unethical/illegal/irresponsible activity. I am sure that you are correct in assuming that there are probably at least a few who will buy animals from these dealers after learning about them on this site. I also would like to very much believe that many more will not support dealers like the one listed above because of the outpouring of information that follows such a posting. I should also mention that I am referring to just posts regarding dealers and not locality info - you are very wise not to make this freely available. Anyway, my 2 cents.
Chip
 
I don't see it as a suppression of information that is vital to salamander care or interest.

Ironically the poster trying to reveal such a shady activity is generating free publicity for that dealer!
 
I have found this site to be an incredible source of information. I look around my room now, and I see four tanks with happy newtlings in them thanks to you guys. In everything I have done to those tanks and with the newts, my primary source of research has been this forum. There is no other like it.
Who knows, maybe the guy posting the add knows exactly what a 'Mountain red spring salamander' is. Maybe there's an entire group of people who know exactly what that is (cause I shure as heck don't... but anyway). I haven't seen much research into the linguistics of newt nomenclature, but I'm willing to bet there are some people that have some names for some newts that I know by a different name. Who really knows anything about the guy posting the add?
OK, so he's trying to make money. I know, newts aren't property, they're beings, but just suppose someone treated them like commodities and wanted to sell them. Wouldn't they want to have a quality product? Not that I'm saying that this guy has quality products, but in general, I'd rather buy a healthy looking newt than a snaggle toothed one. I bought my first newts from a pet store. If that store hadn't had those axolotls, none of me or my friends (who introduced me to newt keeping and this site), would have ever developed an interest, and we would have never had any reason to put 'axolotl care' into a search engine to discover this wonderful site.
Speaking of axolotls, where would their species be without people selling them either as pets or as food? How many axolotls are there in captivity as compared to in nature?
Freedom of speech is vital. Mad props for deleting the locality info, but why delete when you can respond? There's no reason people can't make their own decision. No one else really has the right to make the decision for them. Where do you draw the line? If you think someone's add is bogus, write about it and tell everyone why. People are smart, they can make their own decision.
We want to hear and talk about newts. I have noticed a recent descent into jugement matters that have seemed to be resulting in little skirmishes here and there, usually berating people with conflicting views. I'm not saying that you're not totally legit in berating them. Most of those people are probably not what I would consider good newt keepers, but it just seems like it's a distraction from the focus of the site.
They most likely don't care. From the conversations I've seen on this site, I'd say most of the people who visit it do care, so why not let them make the decision for themselves. If you delete the cause of the controversy, you delete the responses that would follow which could resolve it. Those responses empower everyone to see for themselves why it was wrong, or greedy or whatever in a way which simply deleting it would not.
I think it is important for everyone to agree that not everyone has the same point of view. Sometimes we all question our own point of view, and why not compare it with others. Maybe there's a point of view of someone else's out there that if we could just see for a second, we might be able to find the key to our own, weather ours be like or opposing. Wouldn't it be sad for us if that point of view had been wiped out of existence because someone else didn't like it and found it of no use? I think so. What is the point of censoring? Let the knowledge flourish like we want our newts to flourish.
The beauty of this system you got here is that anyone can just come along at put in their 2 cents no matter who they are. I think that's just great. I don't like censorship.

... than again... if you reeeeeally need some hard drive space, I would totally understand.
 
Wow, I have totally missed this thread. Thought it would end with the ironic comments it started with...

I do not like censorship. But I don't think Caudata.org should be an advertising site either.
The sad thing is that some of these posts start up good debates that would be a shame to miss out on. The chenggongensis thread is a good example, I learned loads from it but I know that a lot of people bought those cyanurus....

The sad thing is really that animals for sale seems to act as a cue to share info.

I guess it all depends on how you look at your fellow man(hehe), I for one think that no matter how much we flame an ad without negatively reviewing(e.g. this guy ripped me off!) the dealer behind the ad will increase his business.

Maybe we'll get dealers that flame their own ads soon
biggrin.gif
.

If we allow these kinds of posts they should be put in the buyer beware section at least.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • rreu:
    z
    +1
    Unlike
  • Dnurnberg:
    Hello. I just noticed two notches, white small bubbles on the hind legs of one of my male newts.
    +2
    Unlike
  • Dnurnberg:
    I'm trying to put the l
    +1
    Unlike
  • FragileCorpse:
    Hey everyone, just want a little advice. Its 55 - 60 celcius in my Salamanders tank. Hes curled up and tyring ti bury himself, Im assuming hes too cold. I was wondering if he would benefit from a heated rock cave (since he LOVES his cave) that I could set on low? I NEVER see him curled up and trying to bury himself unless his tank sits at 63 degrees celcius or lower. So I am assuming hes a little uncomfortable.
    +1
    Unlike
  • FragileCorpse:
    He also seems a little sluggish, again, assuming hes cold. Having heating trouble with the new house right now. What do we think? Was thinking of grabbing this for him since its got very low, medium, and higher medium heat settings that exude heat downward inside the rock cave but ALSO exudes it UPWARDS outside of the rock cave, effectively keeping the tank itself a little warm. Seems like it miiiight be a little small for him though, my guy is about 7 inches from tip of his nose tothe tip of his tail. What do we think? https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-Simulation-Adjustable-Temperature-Tortoise/dp/B0CH1DPGBC
    +1
    Unlike
  • FragileCorpse:
    I also asked this as an actual question in a thread in case anyone wants to answer it there instead of here
    +1
    Unlike
    FragileCorpse: I also asked this as an actual question in a thread in case anyone wants to answer it there... +1
    Back
    Top