Another Mystery Salamander

[dawn]

This past summer an acquaintance of mine went camping in upstate NY and brought me back this salamander as a larva. I won't go into what a great surprise that was (sarcasm) but anyway,I named it "Mystrey," raised it to a salamander, and now I'm not sure what it is. I'm thinking it's some kind of dusky salamander (Desmognathus genus) or Northern Two Lined Salamander (Eurycea genus)? Anyone know?
Anyone interested in it?

(Message edited by aartse_tuyn on January 24, 2007)

 

[mark]

Hey Dawn, I re-arranged your pictures. Looks like Eurycea bislineata to me.

If you want to re-home it place an ad in the "for-sale/give-away" section

 

[ryan]

i agree, nice pics

 

[dawn]

Can I ask you guys what made you decide between the two species? They look so similar! At least, from the guide books I pored over trying to figure it out. I'm going to ask on the lungless salamander subforum if anyone even keeps these. It's not like I don't want it, I was just thinking that if anyone was crazy for one, I care about it but I'm not really bonded to it.

 

[cameron]

Well for one, the stripes are broken up on each side of it's tail. Also the irregular stripe down the back also tells. Duskys' are usually much larger salamanders too.

(Message edited by slimy on January 25, 2007)

 

[ryan]

duskys' are also slightly bulkier

 

[dawn]

Thanks!

 

[john]

I'm wouldn't rule out Desmognathus Ocrophaeus. I've found many of these in WV and they are also found commonly in NY. The last two pics, while not looking "bulky" appear a little large for Eurycea. The snout appears a little blunt for desmog but it's a bit hard to tell for sure in these pics. What's the overall length?

 

[dawn]

Whew! That wasn't easy. She's very very wiggly. She's four inches long. I'm only calling her "she" because I'm tired of calling her "it." I have no idea what sex she is.

 

[john]

4 inches seems a bit long for a rather newly morphed E. bis. I'd tend lean towards the Ocraphaeus based on that.

 

[mark]

Well, I’m going to stick my neck on the line and say I still think it’s Eurycea bislineata although I should really bow down to American expertise!

Desmognathus ochrophaeus has a rounded tail whereas E.bislineata has a keeled tail. It’s hard to tell in the photos but I think it looks like a keeled tail and the tail is longer than half of the animals total body length leaning me towards Eurycea. The head shape is more Eurycea than Desmog IMO.

According to my field guides both species attain a similar adult size - 4 inches would be long for a new morph of either species. When did it morph Dawn?

 

[cameron]

It's got to be E. bislineata.

 

[cameron]

See the similarity.

 

[brian]

It is Eurycea bislineata. I've found many of them. 4" in that short a time is a testament to your good care! What have you been feeding it?

 

[john]

I agree that E. bis is most likely. I've also found hundreds of them so I'm extremely familiar with them. The tail keel is hard to tell from those pictures. Desmogs do have keeled tails, Ocraphaeus has a rounded tail compared to other desmogs but still somewhat keeled relative to most other terrestrial plethodonts. Tail to body length ratio seems more E. bis as does the blunt nose. The thing that really throws me off from saying E. bis without a doubt is the girth of the tail immediately behind the back legs. I don't think i've seen e. bis with that thick of tail in that area that tapers so evenly. But, that could also easily be a photo artifact. Also, the 4" length after morph doesn't mean as much as I initially thought. I remembered that E. bis can stay in larval form for many years before morphing.

 

[kristen]

This is definetly Eurycea bislineata. Any of the Desmognathus, although they can develop a golden color, are typically not this color on the tail, nor are they this slender. I've only heard of a 1-2 year larval period in E. bislineata with an occasional individual spending 3 years in streams (Petranka), but I have seen approximately 4 inch (total length) metamorphs in the Piedmont of North Carolina.

 

[john]

http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=aw_lists_genera_&enlarge=1111+1111+1111+2822

This is one of Henk's photos on Amphibiaweb of Ocrophaeus. Very typical of many i've found. Looks pretty golden on the tail to me. I'd still lean very much towards e. bis as well but almost entirely on head shape.

(Message edited by jennewt on February 18, 2007)

 

[erwin]

According to Petranka, D.o. has 14 costal grooves, while E.b. has typically 13-16 costal grooves. I also think that the coloured line from the eye to the throat is typically Desmognathus, but I am not sure.

 

[cameron]

Just to make sure your everybody knows. Mine are pics of Eurycea cirrigera (Southern Two-Lined Salamanders.

 

[dawn]

Wow, what a lot of discussion! I was working a double shift yesterday so I couldn't log on. Anyway, I got the salamander in the summer and she morphed about Aug. or Sept. I have it written down at home, but I'm at my boyfriend's house who has high speed internet, so I like to log on here. Tomorrow I'll check for sure, and I'll look at her tail keel better and try for another shot. Anyway, when she was a larva, she was pretty small and I put her alone in a tank where I fed her blackworms and put in wild vegetation with whatever bugs were sticking to them. When she got long enough that I thought no one would eat her, I put her in my community tank with guppies and Eastern Newts. There she got more blackworms, and had access to more wild vegetation, guppy fry, fish flakes (my special mix with dried brine shrimp and dried daphnia). When she morphed I put her in another tank with a marbled salamander and an Emperor newt (I'm sure the anti-species-mixers are cringing over their keyboards). There she gets fed blackworms that stay in a shallow bowl, and crickets are added once a week (pinheads and smalls). I'm not all that sure what she chooses to eat and how often, but I do think she seems pretty healthy.