Question: Ammonia and Nitrate problem

I've read as much as I can about it and I've tried to understand as much as I can, but I just havn't been prepared for when it actually happened. I just do my best so Gem can be happy. I've got sand, I've got treated water, I've got special food for her, I've tried my best to look after her. I will let the tank sit for another day or 2, now that it's all set up, then see how I go. I still don't know why Gem is panicking in the fridge though and whenever I approach her.
 
Hi there,

When you cleaned the filter sponges, did you use dechlorinated water, or just water direct from the tap? If you used tap water, you've likely killed a good portion of your beneficial bacteria that was living in the filter sponges. Chlorine (a chemical put in our tap water to make water safe for human consumption) doesn't discriminate between good or bad bacteria; it kills ALL of it. This is why when doing a partial water change, you must treat the bucket of water with dechlorinator to rid the water of chlorine BEFORE dumping this fresh water into the tank.

When you need to clean the filter, fill a bucket with the tank water, and give the filter media a good shake, rinse, and clean off in the bucket (the tank water will keep the bacteria living in the filter alive), and then replace filter in the tank when all excess gunk is shaken loose.

As you've made some pretty drastic changes in a small space of time: changing and replacing all the substrate, totally cleaning out the filter, removing all plants (plants also feed upon ammonia), and perhaps (if water was not dechlorinated) dumping chlorine into the tank and perhaps killing a majority of bacteria - I'd say your tank has been thrown into a mini cycle, and Gem is probably a little stressed by all the changes made. Axolotls find fluctuations and major changes to be stressful. When doing tank "renovations", it's best to make changes gradually, and not all at once.

While Gem is enjoying her holiday in the fridge, this will give you time to sort out any issues going on in the tank. It will also give you time to think of any questions about cycling (or anything else) you may have for forum members - cycling can be a difficult concept to grasp - I think most of us here have struggled with it at one time, or another. :happy:

Further easy to read through information can be found in the "Water Quality FAQ" section linked in my signature bar, also information on cycling (there's a wonderful diagram in this article that should help a lot). If you have any questions, please don't be afraid to ask.

While Gem is living in the fridge, throw her poopy water (waste = ammonia) into the tank after doing her daily water change, and this will keep the bacterias in the tank fed with an ammonia source, while Gem is not present in the tank.

While Gem is being fridged, is her container covered? If not, every time the fridge light comes on, or if she sees you looming over her, she will likely stress further, as the only thing going through her small brain will likely be: "Predator alert!". I know it's very hard when worried for your axolotl to not "check on them" more than once a day, but please, only open her container to do her once daily water change - for no other reason should she be disturbed while in the fridge. Covering her container with a teatowel (or similar) will help her feel safe (cold and dark) while being fridged.

Life in the fridge for Gem is a lot different than life in the tank. While in the tank, Gem can flee or hide from anything that may alarm or frighten her. In the fridge, she's a lot more exposed in a small confined space where she isn't able to run or hide from what she thinks is "danger"...and this will stress her.
 
wow, that's a lot of information. Ok, where to start. When I bought the filter, the lady at the aquarium said to clean it and rinse it out once every few days - she didn't specify that it had to be done in treated water, so thanks a lot. The water in the tank is 1/4 old water, 1/2 treated water and 1/4 non treated (stupid me).

I didn't change the tank at all when she was in it. I took her out of it, because she was stressing and I thought the fridge would calm her down. Turns out the tank was cycling and I didn't know it, but I really needed to get her some sand anyway and to take control of the flow of the air stone, which I did, and the filter, which I'm still wondering what to do about.

As for the "Water Quality FAQ" section, I've read it over and over and over again, to try and understand what happens and why and in theory I get it, but obviously I don't in practice. As for Gem's container in the fridge, its almost completely covered by 2 tea towels, but I do tend to check on her, so I will leave her completely alone except for water changes in coming days.

Thank you so much for helping make sense of a few things. I am never going back to that aquarium again!
 
OK first things first.
The lady was very wrong you only need to clean your filter sponges if a. they are VERY DIRTY or b. your filter output slows or it is not preforming as well as you want it too (which would indicate it's clogged up with gunk it has filtered out bring us back to scenario a. ) either way give it a gentle shake, you don't want to dislodge the bacteria any more than is necessary in the process, in a bucket of tank water, pick out any big bits you can see and put it all back together. Be prepared for it to blow a little brown muck into the water when you start it back up. It's not a problem and will quickly clear.
DO NOT let the sponge dry out you will kill your filter and will more than likely have to cycle all over again.
It's unfortunate that they don't keep their staff better informed but it sometimes happens that sales people feed the unsuspecting buyer and potential newbie false information (not knowing any better) that can have some catastrophic consequences. Most of us assume that if they work in an aquarium store then the know what they are on about :(

Where you are now....
Turn your filter ON if you haven't already it will keep any bacteria that managed to hang in there alive AND will help to clear the sand particles (cloudieness) from the water faster.

Having removed the gravel and cleaned the filter your tank WILL be cycling again. Hopefully you haven't scrubbed the glass or anything else inside the tank so there will still be a little bacteria in there to kick you off again.

Cycling can be confusing and hard to get your head around as you have discovered mostly because there are 2 things you need to get a grip of.
The first is fairly simple ~ What is the nitrogen cycle? Big name for a simple process :happy:
Here it is
Axolotls produce waste and waste, rotting plants and decaying food all equal Ammonia.
Here starts the cycle! Here it is as simply as I can
Ammonia is turned to Nitrite which is then turned into Nitrate.
There you go, that's it, in all it's simplistic glory ;)
So
Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate
or if you prefer
Very toxic > Less toxic > a little toxic ;)
All of this is done by the bacteria living on the surface of everything in your tank but especially in your FILTER :happy: The Nitrate is then removed by your water changes and small amounts of it will also be used by your plants for food.

Which brings us to the actual cycling :happy: and thing # 2 that you need to get your head at least partially around :( I know it's long and complicated but I've made it as simple as I can.
Cycling is what we call process that happens while all the bacteria you will need to keep Gem's water healthy sets itself up and gets settled in your filter to the point where the ammonia is being consumed at the same rate or faster then it is being produced and Nitrite is being consumed at the same rate or faster than it is being produced.
There are 2 types of bacteria in the filter when all this is finished. One that eats the Ammonia and excretes Nitrite and another that eats Nitrite and excretes Nitrate.
That's it. Personally I think it is poorly named.. Cycling your tank :rolleyes: you're cycling your filter, it's ALL about the filter.

OK so How do you do it?

Over the next few weeks you will be growing both lots of bacteria.
Each day test your water for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. You don't really need the nitrate at the start but it's good to have it should it do anything funny on you so ignore the result until later in Phase 2 ;)

What you're looking for are the 3 Phases of cycling to run their course.
There is no set time frame for how long this will take however it's generally anywhere from about 2 weeks to 2 months but it's usually faster if you already have a little bacteria hanging around your tank as you do now. So you're doing more of a mini cycle... we hope

As you have some of both bacteria already (hopefully) you will probably see small amounts of nitrite and nitrate as you go but you shouldn't see great fluctuations in either until the end of phase 1 (for nitrite) and the end of phase 2 (for Nitrate)

Well that's all well and good but how do I do it and what am I looking for?

First you'll need an ammonia source and Gem's fridge water is an excellent place to start (thank you Jacquie). Just tip it into the tank each day when you do her water changes. Removing a little water as needed to make room of course, we cant have soggy carpet and wet floors now, they are a health and safety risk ;)

Phase 1 ~ The Ammonia eaters move in and multiply
What your tests will show;
Ammonia ~ Rises steadily to a peak before starting to drop back down.
Nitrite ~ will be 0 or at least remain steady and will begin to rise as the ammonia levels drop
Nitrate ~ will be 0 or at least remain steady with no real increase or decrease except after water changes.
You may find you tank goes a little cloudy for a couple of days during this phase, don't worry about it, it's completely normal and will clear on it's own

Phase 2 ~ The Nitrite eaters move in and multiply
What your tests will show;
Ammonia ~ Will continue to drop and will then remain at zero
Nitrite ~ Will continue to rise to a peak before starting to drop back down to zero
Nitrate ~ will be 0 or at least remain steady until the Nitrite begins to drop at which point it will begin to rise.

Phase 3 ~ A fully cycled tank
What your tests will show;
Ammonia ~ 0
Nitrite ~ 0
Nitrate ~ rising slowly

NOTE: if at any time while cycling you get ANY of the following readings do a 20% water change to bring the numbers down!
Ammonia ~ 0.8 or higher
Nitrite ~ 0.5 or higher
Nitrate ~ 40 or higher



If you have Gem or anything else living in the tank you will need to change some water if you get any of these levels at any time.
Ammonia ~ 0.5 or higher
Nitrite ~ 0.3 or higher
Nitrate ~ 35 or higher
 
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Ok... that explains a lot! Thank you so much! Although, I only have plastic plants in there at the moment, so no real plants to take up the ammonia as much, maybe that's why my ammonia levels were so high before I changed the tank, which no, I havn't scrubbed and I've already noticed some slimy feeling stuff on in the inside of my tank. The problem originally was that the ammonia level's were high and that it wasn't cycling properly. Maybe I need some real plants, but then I'll need lights and stuff like that, which I can't afford. Anyway, thanks again for simplifying things for me, I fully understand it now :happy:
 
Glad it cleared it up a little for you :happy:
Plants use the end product of the nitrogen cycle. The Nitrate.
Yeah if you had plants you'd need some sort of light. Some plants are happy with the ambient light in a room as long as it's a pretty bright room but you have to pick your plants carefully. Plastic will be fine. Unless you have a lot of plants the Nitrate they consume is negligible so I wouldn't worry about the plants :D There are plenty of VERY happy axies on the forum here who live with plastic and silk plants.

You tank was cycling before and high ammonia is very normal and to be expected for Phase 1. The trick is to watch it closely and change some water before it spikes too high :happy:
Slimy is good :happy: it will give you a little head start.

Feel free to ask questions as you go if you can catch any problems early it's easier to correct them and get everything back on track.
 
Well, the problem I'm having now that I only just noticed, was that my filter's creating a current that is (by rule of thumb) too strong and I can't seem to find anything to slow it, even a plastic plant. I've read lots on the forums, but they're all for filters that aren't 'inside tank' small sponge ones like mine. Any idea's?
 
Really depends on the filter. Do you know what yours is called maybe I can google it for a picture. The usual thing to do is turn the outlet (where the water comes back out) towards the wall and you may need to place plants in the way after that as well.
Not all filters will let you turn the outlet though and your best getting a but of extra filter sponge and attaching it to the outflow somehow.
Some if the intake filters have the option to attach a spraybar that would disperse the returned water over a larger area, you can also slide the rectangular pond pump sponges over the spray bar to disrupt it further but like I said it depends on the filter you have.
 
Does the output rotate? Aim it at the corner or back wall of the tank. That'll help tremendously. You can also fashion baffles (made out of old soda bottles with holes melted in with a glue gun) that you rubber-band to the output.
 
No, the output doesn't rotate and I can''t position the filter in a way that would face the wall or a plant and I don't have a glue gun.
 
We have a few of those filters spanning about 15 years of their production models. They are a good little filter :happy: and the outlet does turn around it just takes a little force to do it ;) it's easiest if you can hold it in both hands then push down on the duckbill a little (to stop it popping out) and turn it in the direction you want it to go.
You will be able to turn the duck bill (90 degrees) to face the wall of the tank or even and depending on the age of it you may even be able to turn it right back on itself (180 degrees) so it's flowing over the top of the filter and onto the wall behind it.

Unfortunately because of the way the motor works and the way the impella (the little fan that moves the water) runs they do not do well for very long if you attach things like sponges to the outlet. The motor tends to get quite hot and burn out if you restrict the flow too much :rolleyes: but turning it into the wall won't hurt it at all :happy:

If it stops pumping or get's noisy it's usually the impella that is it's problem and it's usually because it's dirty in the shaft it sits in you can clean it easily by removing the black "cap" from the underside of the motor section (on the right of the picture below) and pulling the little fan & the magnet it's attached to out and giving it a good wash. You can use tap water to clean this bit as it houses very little bacteria but you will need to keep the sponge part in tank water while you're doing this so it doesn't dry out. To put it back together you just place it back into it's little hole and put the cap back on and put the top back onto the sponge section again.
Here's the picture.
aquaOne_101_Internal_Filter_10_Small.jpg
 
Tested the water today:

ammonia: 1.0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
ph: 7.4

So, I take it that the tank has started phase 1 of the cycle. Is it safe to put Gem back in or should I wait?
 
Test your water daily, and do water changes whenever your test kit registers ammonia is in your tank. Ammonia is the most deadly out of nitrite, and nitrate. I know 1 ppm of ammonia doesn't sound like much ammonia in your tank but even .5 ppm of ammonia could lead to serious problems and possibly death.
 
Nice setup, I'm sure Gem will love it after her holiday in the fridge.

Yep Phase one, give it another day or 2 before you put Gem back in. You want to see Phase 2 starting before you put her in so that the chances of the ammonia spiking are lower making it safer for her.
As Carson said change some water to get the ammonia back down again 1ppm is too high for even the bacteria it needs to be at least half to a quarter of that. If Gem is in the tank it needs to stay BELOW 0.25

:happy: You've moved the wrong bit ;) Put that bit back up and turn the very top bit, the interchangeable spout on the very top of the bit you turned and you will be able to turn that toward the wall. Don't be surprised if it pops off in your hand just push it back in, it's supposed to come off so you can put the other attachments on.
This might help...
2m4t9tu.jpg
 
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Wow, one of those 'right in front of your face' things. I had no idea that it turned like that! Ok, so I faced it to the wall and now there seems to be very little current under water and just ripples on top. I will do a water change as much as needed.
Thank you for your help! :happy:
 
Yeah it's one of those "if you don't know it's there you don't see it" kinda things :happy:
I'm so glad it's sorted out your flow issues :happy: now all you have to worry about is keeping on top of changing water until your tank is cycled :D

Feel free to post any questions or concerns you have but hopefully it should be a nice smooth cycle for you and Gem will be back in the tank and exploring the new layout before you know it.
 
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