The Dreaded Blue Green Algae

[moinkable]

Ack

I actually dont mind algae. The tuft-y stuff that grows in my hubby's planted is actually quite gorgeous. However...the blue green algae in my newt tank is taking over. It actually managed to choke my java moss, and despite me: Sucking out all BGA and leftover food with a baster, scrubbing it off the decor with a toothbrush, and changing the water (ALL of this every two days)...
It just keeps coming back with a vengence. And it stinks like rotten butt. Fenton and Fig, my C. Orientalis, miss their moss, and I'm tired of the smell.

I asked an employee at a fancy LFS (who keeps Spanish Ribbed Newts!) about what he would suggest, and he got me some Marocyn from the back. Said i should take out Fenton and Fig, treat the tank, change all the water, and then put them back. He didn't seem to think that any residue from the antibiotic would hurt them, and apparently it will kill the BGA (FINALLY FINALLY O THANK GOD).

So, has anyone on here used Marocyn with newts? Any ill effects? I am desperate and inclined to believe this guy...but still a bit leery of putting medication in there (even with the newts out and the water change...).

Thanks!

 

[Molch]

fish store owners are always quick to recommend the chemical warfare, but they seldom understand the consequences. Antibiotics might also kill your beneficial bacteria, essentially forcing your tank to cycle all over again. That may lead to more and worse algae problems in the future. blue green algae (bacteria) may be related to too high a nitrate content, but I'm not really sure about that.

Anyways, I would be cautious with the antibiotics. The best way to fix algae problems is to address the underlying cause. Otherwise, they will always return eventually. Algae outbreaks point to an imbalance between nutrient availability (probably too much), light (too much or too little) and plant growth (healthy plant growth usually out-competes algae). Blue green algae, being bacteria, not true algae, are trickier than the regular algae types. The stink suggests that you have some serious water quality problems, maybe from dying algae or plants? Have you measures ammonia, nitrite and nitrate recently? Can you give us a few more details on your tank? Water parameters (the above plus pH), temperature, plant growth?

 

[moinkable]

I know I'm not a fan of chemicals either...

My tank didn't really "cycle" because it is a quasi-Walstaad set up. (substrate is organic potting soil topped with big pebbles). I fed it and let it sit for weeks and it never spiked or did anything .The only plant i had in there was a nice big raft of Java moss (it's a 10 g, cold water, not the best light...), but it got coated in BGA and died. I took it out. I was gonna add some fresh soil after the treatment to reboot bacteria, and maybe try putting an Anubia in there along with some fresh moss.

In my understanding, the way to fix any water quality issues is just to do lots of changes, and remove waste after feeding. I've been doing changes every other day for a while now and seeing no change, the algae is actually getting worse. The "stink" is for sure coming from the algae itself, it's a characteristic of the BGA.

So, all that's a roundabout way of saying I haven't tested (for shame for shame I know!), but even if it does turn out to be a water quality issue, what am I supposed to do about it besides what I've already been doing?

 

[moinkable]

Sorry if this is a repeat, I'm not sure if my last one went through:

1) I'm not too worried about cycling. The tank is a quasi-Walstad (substrate is organic potting soil and pebbles) so it never really "cycled" in the first place. I fed and monitored it but it just never bumped. After the chemical warfare, I'm planning on giving it some fresh soil to reboot, and probably fresh plants too

2) The tank isn't planted at the moment, before all it had was Java moss (which died and was removed). The temp is room temp, around 65-70, and for light i've got an LED bar which is on about 60% of the day.

3) The stink is definitely from the BGA itself rather than the water. Trust.

4) As for water quality, from what I understand the only way to fix that is to do lots of water changes and remove waste, right? I've been doing water changes every other day for the past few weeks, and the algae problem is getting worse, not better. I also got a turkey baster and I suck out the waste after feeding. Sooo...I haven't tested (lazy on me, I know!)...but my logic says that if water quality is my problem, shouldn't what i've been doing be taking care of that? Is there something else do be done to address poor water quality?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Molch]

Sorry if this is a repeat, I'm not sure if my last one went through:

1) I'm not too worried about cycling. The tank is a quasi-Walstad (substrate is organic potting soil and pebbles) so it never really "cycled" in the first place. I fed and monitored it but it just never bumped. After the chemical warfare, I'm planning on giving it some fresh soil to reboot, and probably fresh plants too

Thank you for your help!

I think part of your problem is right there. You have a soil-based tank, but no rooted plants in the substrate? A Walstad-type tank needs dense plant growth and healthy roots in the soil to oxygenize and chemically stabilize the substrate. Without this, you may have had a number of nutrients, iron and other chemicals enter the water, and that may have contributed to the algae outbreak. In my experience, Walstad tanks need to cycle like other tanks, but having lush plant growth from the start will help prevent algae outbreaks. Which water parameters did you measure?

When you try again, I would plant fast-growing stem - and other rooted plants, like java swords, Elodea, Rotala, Vallisneria, Ceratopteris etc. No harm in trying out many species; some may not make it but others will.

also, if the potting soil you used was fertilized, it could release large amount of algae-promoting nutrients into the water. Do you remember what kind you used?

 

[moinkable]

Hmm interesting. I didn't know that the soil needed the plant roots to interact with it. I used the soil substrate without plants because i thought it would provide a better buffer. Plus, the nice muddy bottom with the pebbles just looks nice. Soil is miracle grow organic...which is the recommended type i think?.

I mean, I would LOVE to do plants but am worried about raising the temp too much in there with a big hot light. I've got a Marine Life LED bar on there now which is nice and cool but...not bright enough. Anywho...

When doing testing, I do the usual... nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, ph. So are you thinking I should
A) just tear it down and start again without the dirt? or
B) Bomb the tank with antibiotics and then try planting 3-4 anubias?

P.S. --- Thanks so much for the great advice!

 

[Molch]

think of it this way: soil is food for plants. We put it in there so the plants can root in it and "eat" the nutrients in the soil. If you put in a lot of soil without plants, it's kinda like throwing a whole lot of fish food into a tank when there are no fish to eat it. The nutrients from the soil will make it into the water column and without anybody to use them, the algae will say "yum! Mine!".

Don't worry about light and temperature. One or two cool white neon tubes or CFLs is probably sufficient, and they don't heat up enough to raise your tank temperature. I have just one cool white tube over most of my my planted tanks and the plants do fine. In fact, if I use too much light, I get green string algae.

Anubias is a fine plant, but it's very slow growing and does not take up nutrients as fast as quick-growing plants. If you keep the soil and decide to have plants, I would add a variety of fast growers and plant very densely. Think "jungle". If you don't want to plant any, then it might be better to go without any soil. You could still have floating plants like java moss, hornwort or even Elodea even without soil.

 

[moinkable]

So the final decision:

I tore down the tank completey. Rinsed everything and scrubbed out all of the blue green algae. Rinsed out all of the potting soil. Tank was rebuilt with pebbles only. Treated everything with Marocyn and let it soak for a few days...didn't see any new BGA growth.

THEN....took everything apart and rinsed again. Tank is currently cycling. I planted a lotus, some new java moss, and have some Salvinia floating in there...the newts are vacationing in a small temp enclosure with their snail and shrimp friends.


It's a shame that I had to tear it down, but i think that you were right, with the dirt substrate that problem would have kept coming back, and I spent too much money on the darned LED to want to replace it so I could have better plant growth. Hopefully in a week or two the reboot will be fully complete.