Wounded Newt

[shop worn angel]

Hello All,

It's been some time since I've posted anything on here...My 6 Chinese Firebelly newts have all been happy and healthy!

An unfortunate situation has occurred, however, and I'm seeking advice. One of my Chinese Firebelly newts, Sebastian, appears to have a wounded arm. He shares a tank with one other newt, his female partner, Amethyst. They had babies 3 years ago, which I keep in a separate tank. Anyways, this morning, I looked in the tank to find Sebastian in a strange position...He appeared to be head down in the rocks, with his abdomen twisted sort of upwards and to the side, and Amethyst appeared to be snapping at him.

I returned to the tank moments later, to find they had separated, and I actually went to feed Sebastian to see if he would eat. He did...he gobbled up the food I gave him, which I took as a good sign. There were a few months where he had been struggling to eat...I had switched him to live worms, as opposed to frozen, and he really isn't fond of the live worms, yet he gobbles up the frozen no matter what. I've continued to feed him the frozen if he's picky with the live worms. The past while, he has been eating successfully, so that is good. Even if he doesn't eat the live worms, he'll always gobble up the frozen ones.

Back to this morning....When I went to look at him again, I realized his arm appeared wounded. I'm trying to figure out what took place here. Amethyst and Seb have lived in this tank together for over 3 years, and it's been a very happy relationship, so I don't believe we have a bullying situation going on. I'm thinking it might have been possible that Sebastian got stuck, and Amethyst was trying to rescue him, and snapped at him and his arm was wounded in the process. Another option is that Sebastian really was unwell, and maybe that wound was there to begin with , and maybe he was fading a bit. I don't know...

Another thing to mention is that over the past few months, I've noticed 2 bumps at the base of Sebastian's tail on either side. They are fairly prominent and hard. I never really paid attention to this before...it is possible that this is a natural part of the bone structure of newts that I've not really been aware of, as I don't really know the anatomy too well. He's slimmer than my other newts in many ways, so I don't know if it's just more prominent on his body, and that all newts have this, or if this is a sign of illness.

I have placed him in a separate set-up apart from Amethyst to avoid her becoming infected if perhaps he is ill with infection.

Might you have any ideas as to what is going on or advice on how to aid with his recovery, if you suspect he is very ill? I do know that sometimes newts can regenerate limbs/etc, and am hoping that this wound will heal.

I thank you for any thoughts you may be able to offer me.

 

[shmifty5]

Keep seb in a sterile and cold environement until he heals and keep a close watch on his wounds, depedning on the severity of his wounds he may be more likely to develope a fungal or bacterial infection (a deep chunk missing exposing bone is definately going to need more care than a simple nibble).

Newts really aren't known as "lovers" when in a pair, it's more of a "you're male, i'm female, let's do this thing" type of agreement, with faint affection developing after a few years together, like a couple who hates each other that lives together for a few decades, they never really love each other but it's the only real option.

I would suspect that they were fueding as it sounds that seb is smaller than amethyst and it is likely she was beating him up to show him who is boss, this has most likely been developing for months and was finally unleashed recently, seperate seb from amethyst until he is bigger and stronger and about the same size as amethyst as this will reduce any conflicts.

The growths could be his testicles or he may have a tumor or some form of cancer, have him checked by a vet if they become larger or impede his movements.

Other than fridging him and feeding lots of healthy foods while keeping his temp home spotless, i would recomend trying to get him big fast as when this is over amethyst might very well tear him a new one soon after being reunited.

 

[shop worn angel]

Thanks so much for your informative response!

I understand what you are saying, and I agree that this is a possibility, I just find it a bit hard to believe that they've been living in the same large space for almost 4 years, and this has never been a problem before. I spend quite a bit of time with them, and I've never noticed anything like this happening before this incident. Also, I've experienced 2 males fighting, and have understood this to be fairly common, but this is the first I've heard of a male and female fighting.

I'm also certain that the bumps on the base of the tail must be the testicles! Of course! They have been there for several months, and have not grown or changed in any way, so I'm delighted to say that that must be what they are! Thank goodness!!!

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post! Much appreciated!!!

 

[shop worn angel]

I should have stated that I've noticed for the past several months that the bumps on the base of the tail were present...it's likely that they were there and that I just didn't notice them so much before...

Thanks again for your help!!!

 

[Azhael]

If the bumps are in the dorsal area of the base of the tail, then they are most probably the hip (if they are in the ventral side, they are the cloacal labia -NOT the testicles-). The fact that you can notice the hip in an aquatic newt means he is underfed or malnourished. If the staple food for 3 years have been bloodworms he might be suffering from malnutrition. Bloodworms are good when combined with other foods, but as a staple they are very incomplete nutritionally and can lead to severe metabolic problems.
Keep trying with the earthworm, perhaps, try offering small chunk. Also, you can try waxworms which are rich in fat and will help the newt replenish his reserves (don´t abuse the waxworms, they are not nutritonally complete and can cause obesity).
The wound could be caused by a rough encounter with the female during feeding time. They are not agressive, but usually they become frenzied when food is around, and some biting and snaping is normal. Hardly ever it becomes a problem.
If that´s the case, as long as conditions are good, the wound will heal fast.
The other possibility is that conditions are not good, and the wound is not a bite, but an infection. Monitor the development of the wound closely (no touching, though). If it advances, give the male a preventive salt bath (you can read about salt baths in the links in my signature).

What are the general conditions? temps, water volume?

I´m curious about the two males fighting thing. Cynops orientalis hardly ever shows any kind of agression except accidental (feeding time). Males compete for females, but shouldn´t fight. Are you absolutely sure your newts are Cynops orientalis?? Just checking, since pet-shops usually fail to label them properly....

 

[misslyss]

it is likely she was beating him up to show him who is boss, this has most likely been developing for months and was finally unleashed recently

I disagree. Its common for some species of newts to compete for a specific hide or territory and sometimes all newts snap at the closest moving thing when introducing the smell of food, but they definitely don't hold grudges or carry out feuds! In my opinion, amphibians only have survival emotions. Like fear, and hunger for example. Although I also think they enjoy having companions as long as all the conditions (tank size, and # of hides for instance) are on point.

Did the snapping start when feeding your newts? If not I would add more hiding spots or move them into a larger aquarium if possible.

The growths could be his testicles or he may have a tumor or some form of cancer

Probably just the hip bones, as Azheal already said.

As long as the wound stays clean and its not infected, it should clear up in no time. Best of luck :happy:

 

[Bellabelloo]

Is it possible he was shedding skin?

 

[shmifty5]

I disagree.

I dunno, i've seen some pretty mean newts in my short time, at a zoo i remember seeing a newt (not sure what species, it was a long time ago) attack another newt for no reason, the zoo guide person said it was common and that they usually do it show dominance (like dogs do), a dude asked the guy if they did this all the time or just in large groups (i think he was with his kid, he migth have just been curious tho) and the zoo guide said they do it when there is a difference in size as competition breeds perfection and smaller animals tend to lose out.

I admit, maybe the zoo guide was dumb or maybe it was a peculiar species and the cynops don't do this, but i think that darwinism kind of tends to make me biased to smaller peace loving species as it seems out of place with natural competition.

But yeah, Azhael is right.

 

[shop worn angel]

Thank-you all so much for your knowledgeable feedback!!!

Azhael, I am certain that the bumps are in fact the hip bones. Sebastian is definitely male, as he helped to create my 4 babies! I'm also sure they are Chinese Firebelly newts. Seb was struggling to eat the live worms when I introduced them to him months ago...His behaviour changed then. Canada wasn't shipping in frozen bloodworms for a while ( at that point), so the live worms were all I had. He would eat, but on occasion, only at that time. For the past while, he'd been more interested in the live worms, though. I also somehow tracked down some frozen bloodworms, and he gobbles those up. He really likes them. I've tried frozen brine shrimp, which none of my newts like.

As for Amethyst snapping at him, I think it really might have been to draw attention to Sebastian's state. I've seen them fight over food, which is why I am cautious and feed them at separate ends of the tank. Maybe he was stuck, too. Maybe she was attempting to help him. They've never fought before.

As for the temperatures of the tank, I keep it cool and monitor it daily. Often, I put ice blocks in and that works very well. I've been doing this for a long while. The tank is large and there are hiding spots and furniture to climb on. The conditions were healthy enough for them to breed, so I feel that they are in a healthy space.

As for my male newts that I had years ago, they did fight. There was lots of space. It was very interesting. I actually attempted to stop the fighting by putting in a divider wall so that they would each have their own little "rooms", and that didn't work. One newt would always climb OVER the wall and attack the other. That's when I got them each their own spacious tank...it didn't take long for me to do that. :0)

Thanks again for your help! I'm doing everything I can and hoping for the best!

Oh, and he did shed his skin either yesterday or today...I can't remember...the wound is still present, but not any worse, thank goodness.

 

[shop worn angel]

I should also mention that the wound is not a fuzzy white or grey, as I've read a fungal infection looks like. It is a band of a strange discolouration...an orangey/brown wound...And, there is some flaking from the hand, it looks like...Again, Sebastian just recently shed his skin...I don't know if that is related...

 

[shmifty5]

given that your newt shed recently it should be clear that amethyst was merely eating the skin from seb and accidentally nipped him, seb should heal without any needed treatment or special precautions, i doubt you will see any more problems between the 2.

happy day!

 

[shop worn angel]

Sebastian shed his skin while in the new home, separate from Amethyst...I still don't know what she was snapping at, but I feel confident that she wasn't attacking him. The fact that the discolouration is an orangey brown and not a fuzzy white concerns me, too. I'm not sure what kind problem this is...I've read that fugal infections are a fuzzy white or grey. And, he is very small...he's eating, though, which is good. I tried to feed him a second time yesterday ( I feed them normally every other day, but it's clear he is malnourished, so I"m trying to offer him more). The first time of the day, he ate, the second time, he refused food. He ate the day before, no problem, too. He might be stressed because of the new set up and not feeling well....

 

[Azhael]

If i understood properly, he shed twice in a short time span?
That can be an indication of infection. They use it as a mechanism to try to remove the infection and heal he wound. Is there any possibility of taking a picture of the affected area? That would be grand..

What you describe about the two males sounds awfully weird. Males of this species don´t fight. There might be some competition for possitioning themselves properly in front of a female, some head butting, some minor nipping, but actual agression is very rare if it happens at all. There´s something weird there...
Other species such as Pachytriton labiatus or Paramesotriton hongkonghensis are territorial and can be highly agressive, and the result of their fighting can indeed be fatal. Cynops orientalis are completely different with no territorialism whatsoever and agression being a rare anecdote.

The wound not being any worse is an excellent sign. Hopefully there is no infection there. Best of lucks!

 

[shmifty5]

wow, well im way out of my league on this one, 1 stab at it and wrong, 2 stabs at it and wrong, 3 stabs at it and mistaken.

I hope i can be of more help the next time around (though i should hope there isn't a next time around, lol).