Why you should pursue a career in hard science.

[SludgeMunkey]

Hello folks!

This post is aimed at our younger members, and our newer members, but the usual gang of creepy salamander geeks are in my sights too.

Today in the mail, I recieved the results from some standardized testing the state of Nebraska makes all their high school kids take. I suppose it is some overpriced ploy to help keep federal education funding rolling in or some silly test put in place by that "No child left behind" political ploy.

Anyway, all opinion aside, I was exposed to some troubling yet not surprising facts. My kid reads like a champion. My kid sucks at math and is barely in the lower end of average at science. Also, as no surprise to me, Nebraska as a whole sucks at math and science.

This got me researching. I started pulling up standardized test results from the last few years from all over the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. No big shock there either. It appears that in all the world locations I was able to find data on, the trend is very similar. (I didn't bother with Asia and the Middle East, as even I only have so much time in a day...)

Young folks really and truly do not know what the heck they are doing when it comes to math and science.

Then, I started playing around with user lists that show age data. I sampled from this site and all the others I regularly visit that have what I think of as high school and early college students. Then I cross referenced that with the test data, and the nature of the sites.

Now mind you, I am not one to talk. My wife balances the checkbook for a reason. I have no trouble with abstract math and science concepts, but the basics kick me in the gluteus maximus, if you know what I mean. So, I freely admit I did very basic calculations and let Wolfram Alpha do the hard work for my very basic overview.


The results are nothing you do not already know. Nothing groundbreaking here. The only difference is I wasted a few hours in between trolling the paranormal and religious corners of the web and assessed it for myself.

My conclusions:

Why the heck can a youngster interested in salamanders, frogs, lizards, snakes, fish or bugs not be pursuing a career in a biological science? How can kids that like blowing stuff up and playing with fire and rockets not pursue an engineering or physics career? How can any of these folks complain there are no jobs when they graduate when they cannot score even average on basic standardized tests and fell OK about such claims?



I really don't know...or do I?


"Science is hard"

"Math is boring"


Great. Try telling me something I don't already know! I am a weapons engineer turned (almost) a biology major with a chemistry minor. I walked out of a 70k a year job to be a full time student. I'll tell you straight up, it IS hard! Really hard! Heck, blowing up aircraft with robotic guns is easy compared to organic chemistry and developmental biology! And don't go plying me with that "...but you are one of those smart guys..."


No. I am not. In fact, I am so amazingly low end average it is almost embarrassing. That is a fact. You USA folks wanna talk test scores and GPAs? Fine by me. I got a 980 on the SAT in 1994. I have a 2.869 GPA on a 4 point scale in college ONLY because I pulled all As in the art classes I took to get out of having to take pseudoscience courses in psychology. I have never passed a chemistry exam in my life. Ever. Thank the FSM for grading curves or I would have got kicked out a few semesters back!

In other words, even though I am a bit of an old fart, I am just as normal and average as you. My mantra has expended. "When in doubt, leave it out, but don't forget Cs get degrees."


So, after all that blather, what I am saying is, if you are really into your axolotl, why not make a career out of it? Does picking out just the right stuff to build a beautiful vivarium tickle you pink? Make a career out of it! Like tromping through the back forty with a camera and a net? Go be a pro and get paid to do it!

Get out of those relatively easy, far too common degrees in business administration and computer graphics and become a biology major! Stop spending so much time in your grow room and become a botanist!

Quit making excuses! If you were that kid that always had a bug in a jar and a pocket full of pretty rocks that tore up your washing machine while you were trying to recapture the bug in the kitchen because the jar popped open, give up your dead end office drone lifestyle and be a REAL science geek!

Sure, it is hard. But so is trying to figure out how to build a stable water chemistry aquarium the first time! Why end up like I did? I was an adult working a horrible job I hated with people I wouldn't step on the brakes for if they were crossing the street in front of me. All I did was work and complain about work. I mean, if that sounds like fun to you, I know a labor union Cardboard Box factory that needs some drones badly...


I am deadly serious kids. After learning what I did today, I can see absolutely no valid reason one can be a regular on a site like this one and NOT be a science major...I really can't.

Now, you are saying, "Well, its like easy for you dude, your old." No, I hate to tell you it is not. I have to suffer through a English comp class with my one of my daughters and her boyfriend. Also, I am not a dude, and it is "you're" not "your"...
Most of the class is old enough to be my kids. I was a barely average student in high school and the bottom of my class in all the military engineering schools I attended. I never did understand the point of algebra.

My point is, if an honest to god redneck from the backwoods of Pennsylvania can major in biology and minor in chemistry and actually pass the classes, you can too.

The excuse that you can't do it because it is too hard just does not cut it.


Now, why would I push this line of thinking? Simple.

Open up another tab in your browser.
Type "Biology jobs" into a search engine.
Spend a few minutes and look at how many big money jobs are open in your area right now that you could have if you had a biology degree.

Now do the same with serch terms like "zoo" and "ecology" and "environmental" in place of biology. Type in USDA and USFW and DNR for job searches!

Whoa! Check that out! They are begging for science geeks all over the world to do everything from research and lab work, to field work and zoo keeping! Heck, who DIDN'T want to be a zoo keeper as a child? A general biology degree can get you in the door!

Heck, our founder here is a chemist. We have all sorts of lab rats and scientists and zookeepers lurking about. They did it, so can you...and guess what...many of them were inspired by such careers by their pets and their hobbies....hint hint hint....

So, get off your butt, quit making excuses, and take the plunge. Just by hanging out on a site like this one you prove you have an interest in science, even if you do not realize it. And remember, if I can do it, anyone can. Turn your hobby into a career instead of growing up to be just another drone in the factory.

 

[jasper408]

The biggest set back is salary. I personally love entymology, but careers in that field are few and low paying. Studying 4 years to be an engineer can earn you tens of thousands more a year compared to bio. Same time in school, more money.

 

[AngieD]

Impressive speech Johnny

I left school at 19, thinking "now to get a job", and ended up in an office which destroyed all sense of self-worth, and then realised after my job there finished, that I didn't actually know what I was good at. I wanted to be a zookeeper, but couldn't afford to go to university, and I found through volunteering in a pet shop that I had an innate ability to make very edgy snakes calm down, but it's not exactly something you can build a career on.
I eventually found out that I am rather good at teaching adults, so now I am well on my way to getting on a college course to prove what I can do.

If you want to get an education, even if you think you have 'missed your chance', there could well be a way to get onto the course you need. The course I'm doing isn't animal related, but I thought I couldn't go to college, and was proved wrong.

Get out there and get learning!

 

[Slimy2]

To elaborate on Johnny's information, more than half of all the freshman that start out as engineering majors here at Arkansas switch their degree to business, because they start out taking calculus and physics courses involving math that is over their heads. Many of my friends have switched to business majors, all because they couldn't handle the math involved in engineering.

I am a biology major. I want to work around entomology, but if I major in entomology the degree is only really great for just that and most jobs in the area of entomology revolve around agriculture, which I do not want to dive into. Mostly, because I feel that it will be an unsatisfying career and the pay is rather low. I'm still unsure what I want to do with a degree in biology, but I know that it will open the door to a wider spectrum of jobs to apply for. I think working in a zoo would be a fun career, because I love animals, or perhaps I will be a research biologist... I'm really not sure yet. I'm not afraid to work in a lab either. I visit my university's research facilities farm to sort out vials of water mites into different groups based on their genera. Later on I will be conducting my own studies on water mites in my local area and with the help of a professor, develope my senior thesis for graduation.

My only problems have been that I too SUCK at math but I have always been good at science. All through grade school and even here in college I am just passing my math courses with C's, but biology and chemistry courses, while challenging in some areas, have been kind of a breeze for me. (I'm dreading university physics though) Thankfully I'm taking my last required math course for my degree. The downside is I can't grasp all of the different concepts and it's going to take everything to pass the course.

Motivating speech Johnny! I'm going to keep pushing through college until I have a degree in hand.

 

[esn]

I'm facing a hard decision right now of choosing between Environmental Studies/Science and Biology as the second half to my double major. My primary major is English, and I've had some mixed reviews on incorporating a hard science into the mix. The thing is, you don't have to be good at math to be a scientist, really. I've learned that with a very limited understanding of algebra and an extreme loathing of math, even I can do statistics. I was afraid of the idea of taking calculus for a Bio major - you don't even have to. I'm decided between the two now more for other reasoning. Which would I enjoy more?

It's never been for "I hate it" or "It's boring" that I've avoided math and science altogether. For me, it was always "I really just don't understand it." I've found that a lot of it lies in the teacher. At most public schools you'll find that many students are written off as hopeless by teachers, therefore they do not receive the same attention. Had I been given the same chance at math and science, I may have found myself liking it. I received attention for English, which is why my composition skills have flourished. Now that I have found professors in college that fully support me and my interests, I'm more determined to take on the harder math sciences. I never thought I'd voluntarily take chemistry again.

It's not that I'm the absolute worst at math - with effort, I make average. I got a flat 2000 on my SATs, and a good portion of that was a perfect score in reading. (For those who don't know the new format for scoring, the max is 800 each for reading, writing, and math in three sections.)

Part of it is the effort that is made in teaching, for sure. I didn't think that I'd have a passion for science until I began looking at herps on my own time. Now I'm just wondering "What in the world will I do with English and Biology?" The answer is probably grad school for herpetology. Someone has to write the journals!

 

[Ghost1]

Introductory algebra is over my head.....

 

[SludgeMunkey]

It is good to see fellow students pop in and add to the rant.


I should probably mention that I dropped or got kicked out of college quite few times back when I was younger. I should also mention all those times were art schools...


I'm just a few months away from graduating....so close I can smell it...but the really nasty courses are still in my future. Statistics and Algebra. I'm saving those for last deliberately, as that close to the end, I won't let myself quit....



As for the low pay bit....well folks, I hate to tell you, but you have to start somewhere. The days of making six digits out of university are long over. In fact, I promise you a business major is in the same boat. They call it entry level for a reason.

I look at it this way: do you want to make 30k a year chasing critters or 28k a year cooking them?

 

[Wildebeestking]

I'm a student in high school. I have complete intentions to attend Northwestern University, major in Zoology (Master in Herpetology) and if possible study abroad in Britain. I have a 4.3 GPA and I got a 34 on the ACT. One year left in high school and I'll be slightly closer to my dream. I'm done babbling about my plans.

 

[slowfoot]

As a person with a PhD in biology who now works as an artist and mom...

Just a little bit of a reality check: The science job market is tough - really tough. If you want to stay in academia (doing research at a university, being a professor) expect to fit tooth and nail for each job opening unless you're a superstar, and you must do a lot of teaching. If you want to work a non-academic job (in a government position or industry) expect to also fight a zillion other qualified applicants. You also must love to write - that will be a major part of your job, writing up your findings. Also, you'll never make a large-ish amount of money in 99% of these jobs.

But if you love research (or think you do - definitely try working in someone's lab before you commit) it can be a great career. I still love research and miss it a lot.

 

[jane1187]

Here's a post from a lecturer!

Its a well know fact amongst teachers/lecturers and trainee teachers that this trend is not new at all. STEM (science, tech, engineering and maths) graduates are at an all time low. 12,000 psychology graduates vs. 2,000 physics graduates in 2011... not surprising to be honest. That is why in the UK people taking a PGCE (teacher training qual) can get an extra bursary between £5,000 and £8,000 for doing your PGCE in a science subject. There aren't wnough of these people becoming teachers and there's a shortage. I myself received such a bursary and was the only person in my 20 student year group to do a PGCE in a science subject (yes there were no other biologists, mathematicians, chemists, engineers, technology, etc PGCE students).

I'm afraid this has been occurring for at least the last 10 years, if not longer.

However, there is a counter-argument that science jobs are at an all time low. I don't know how true this is for the rest of the world but it is certainly true in the UK. The only science subject which attracts any sort of job is biology, leading to nursing and doctoring jobs. Chemists and physicists usually end up becoming teachers as there's nothing else to do with themselves. Engineers are at risk of ending up as car repairmen, not a suitable position for a graduate with a degree. According to some sources as little as 3% of graduate scientists are in permanent science jobs within 5 years of graduating.

To be honest I think that there is also an 'uncool' factor in the current young-person culture... its not cool to be a scientist or an engineer. Obviously I cannot produce much in the way of facts and figures for this, just a hunch after teaching the subjects myself.

It is an unfortunate trend, I agree with you, but unfortunately it is being fuelled by a tough job market.

Interesting to see this topic cropping up on caudata though!

 

[Azhael]

Fantastic post, Johnny.
I have but one commentary to make and is just a warning. If you are one of those kids that, like Johnny said, went everywhere with an empty jar and whose idea of a good time was splashing in some creek, you should know that if you go into a biology degree it is likely that the fun will only really start AFTER you get your degree. I expect this varies a lot between contries but my experience has been that field biology being my true interest, the degree has been terribly disappointing in that area. Expect for some field excursions (which were amazing) there´s very little if anything at all that will satisfy your hunger for seeing "cool animals". You will also have to endure a great deal of material from subjects that don´t catch your interest quite the same way, but which are critically important in your formation (and that will only trully spark your interest after hating them for a few years only to eventually realise their value). This can get very unmotivating... and sort of kill your initial enthusiasm, but i find that this happens largely only if your initial expectations were unrealistic. A biology degree is not splashing on creeks, working hands on with animals (or plants, or fungi, or whatever tickles you) or learning only about your prefered subjects, for the most part.... I made the mistake of not really knowing what i was getting into and i´m paying the consequences. If you get into a biology degree, be realistic, know that it´s going to be tough but it´s entirely doable and keep in mind the important objective: get a degree so that you can hopefully move on to the fun part. I would also recommend to people of that persuasion to keep themselves motivated with extracurricular activities, because the classes themselves may not be enough for you.

I don´t want to paint too dreadful a picture of what it´s all like, i just want to point out that the educational system at a university level is not particularly conducive for certain personalities or certain interest (it couldn´t possibly fit everyone) and that this can make things tougher for those individuals, but it´s all worth it, it really is.

 

[jamminnewt]

Hello everyone,

I thought I'd pop in on this one. I majored in Biology with an emphasis in Zoology from CSULB and tried my hand at getting into the Zoo scene. That is EXTREMELY bottlenecked, competitive, and overall depressing as well. You have to slave yourself out for years to gain experience, which you can't get without exoerience to get you in the door, for little to no money until you have enough experience to be hireable. Then you get a small fee for working hard ot care for all the lovely critters. Anyhoo, I found out that I didn't have it in me to fight through all of the hordes of other hopefuls for years of hard work. I also realized, during my short exotic animal internship, that I preferred to interact with people. I like teaching kids- so I went into that.

Currently I am sitting in one of my last 2 Masters' Degree courses in Education and teaching middle school science in Los Angeles. One of the first things I did with my students was ask them to draw what a scientist looked like. Most drew an old white guy with crazy hair, lab coat and bubbling beakers. To show them that scientists aren't all old white dudes in laboratories, I created a slideshow of young, multi-racial scientists, who are currently working. I showed them pictures of people I knew and told them about the different research being done. THEN, I told them about what those people do BESIDES research: I made them real, cool people. I didn't have to try either, the truth worked. The kids responded very positively and wanted to know more about the people and what they were doing.

Anyhoo, I just wanted to share that I think the reason people think scientists are "uncool" is because we don't stress the humanity and reality of them. We don't tell students that after the cancer researchers leave for the day they like to have a laugh and go on facebook. This simple thing makes a world of difference in how students understand the profession.

Good luck on finding your niche everyone. I hope I've found mine, but I will find out as I go!

 

[ajr104]

Well, as a final year PhD marine biology student in the UK I have to say that you will only make it in science if you REALLY want to, are REALLY passionate about what you do, and perhaps most of all are REALLY lucky because even the best people may not get the PhD studentships, the postdocs, and the jobs.

Personally I love what I do, and have done since I was an undergraduate. But it is only through being passionate about it and putting in the hours (all hours, all days!) that doors have opened, networking has happened and I have been rewarded with fantastic experiences (such as 2 months at sea in the Antarctic). On top of that you get the occasional buzz of publishing papers and if you really want o make the differences engage with the public and generate more interest (for a shameless plug check out the 'molluscs switch sex' article on the BBC science pages for my most recent paper).

Oh, and sure, the money is pants, but do I do this for the money or for doing research that gets me excited? Its certainly for the latter...

 

[SludgeMunkey]

Fantastic post, Johnny.
I have but one commentary to make and is just a warning. If you are one of those kids that, like Johnny said, went everywhere with an empty jar and whose idea of a good time was splashing in some creek, you should know that if you go into a biology degree it is likely that the fun will only really start AFTER you get your degree. I expect this varies a lot between contries but my experience has been that field biology being my true interest, the degree has been terribly disappointing in that area. Expect for some field excursions (which were amazing) there´s very little if anything at all that will satisfy your hunger for seeing "cool animals". You will also have to endure a great deal of material from subjects that don´t catch your interest quite the same way, but which are critically important in your formation (and that will only trully spark your interest after hating them for a few years only to eventually realise their value). This can get very unmotivating... and sort of kill your initial enthusiasm, but i find that this happens largely only if your initial expectations were unrealistic. A biology degree is not splashing on creeks, working hands on with animals (or plants, or fungi, or whatever tickles you) or learning only about your prefered subjects, for the most part.... I made the mistake of not really knowing what i was getting into and i´m paying the consequences. If you get into a biology degree, be realistic, know that it´s going to be tough but it´s entirely doable and keep in mind the important objective: get a degree so that you can hopefully move on to the fun part. I would also recommend to people of that persuasion to keep themselves motivated with extracurricular activities, because the classes themselves may not be enough for you.

I don´t want to paint too dreadful a picture of what it´s all like, i just want to point out that the educational system at a university level is not particularly conducive for certain personalities or certain interest (it couldn´t possibly fit everyone) and that this can make things tougher for those individuals, but it´s all worth it, it really is.

But wait. I'm confused. I have been doing all sorts of "cool" stuff in the field....on my own, mind you....but now armed with the knowledge and experience one can only get with a science degree or two. And, all that open laboratory access has really helped out. So much time is saved when one doesn't have to scrounge up and repair used equipment or cobble it together from junk.

Also, yes Organic Chemistry sucks, but it is so darned interesting.


As for the money end that other folks seem to be fixated on I would like to point out that those all too common business majors on average make less a year than biology majors do....at least in the US.

Perhaps you folks should move to this dismal hole of a state we call Nebraska. I hate it here, but biotech, pharma, and research is HUGE. I see on average about 30 new job postings a day, all requiring bachelors degrees specifically in Biology. Masters and PhDs are in high demand too, especially at University Nebraska, Boys Town, and of course all the Big Pharma. For you Chemists and Biochemists there is big money too, but I'm not down with Syngenta- they make atrazine in vast amounts here...

I, however, have my sights set on a nice, over paid, over-regulated government job with DNR, USFW, or USDA. That big-money lab rat stuff just doesn't interest me and keeps me from my personal research projects.

 

[esn]

I've also found that there are quite a few positions open in my area, especially considering that this is a big area for environmental research. Bio and environmental science degrees are very popular for jobs here.

I have found that I have learned a lot for the care of my own animals as well. Access to lab equipment allows me to do my own fecal tests (for my herps ), and a lot of things that would be otherwise hard/expensive to get. I think the knowledge I am acquiring that I can apply to the care of my own herps makes me even more passionate about science.