Illness/Sickness: White skin eating disease?

[Rachel451]

I just have a normal black axolotl, and i got him from the pet shop around 2 and a half years ago, so im not sure how old he is, but lately, he has developed this white powdery stuff on the top of his head. i left it overnight, but when I woke up in the morning, it had spread onto his eyes, and he had become less active. A couple of days later, i noticed that the skin under the powder area, was peeling back his skin, leaving him with a big red sore on the top of his head. The white stuff keeps spreading, and his eyes, which used to be a yellow colour, are now black with a cloudy film over them. i asked at my local pet shop (i live in Australia) and the lady recommended me a product called 'wardley, promethyasul'. So when i got home, i did a 2/3 water change and added the stuff in. In less than a minute, my axolotl was on his side and nearly dead. i quickly put him in a bucket of fresh water and he's quickly recovered. I'm now doing a complete water change to get all of that product out, and im just going to add the 'multi-purpose medication' into his tank, which i know he is ok with. But i am still extremely worried about the white stuff on top of his head, as it appears to still be spreading and almost burrowing into his head.
Does anyone know what this stuff is, or how you can treat it?

 

[danchristopher]

Not entirely sure but if it looks like fluffy cotton wool type things it might be fungus. This can be treated with salt bathes and fridging. Photos would help a lot to help us try and identify what the problem might be. In your case, until we can actually see what the issue is I would probably recommend fridging your axolotl which will allow it to fully relax. What has the temperature in your tank been recently? Temperatures above 23 degrees can adversely affect axies. For the fridging procedure you can refer to this article: Axolotl Sanctuary

One thing about medication is that a lot of it is made for fish and completely unsuitable for amphibians. There is some that can be used with axolotls but it should be used in much smaller dosages than directed.

 

[Rachel451]

Im not sure on what the tank temp is. I know it would be high though. Iv been trying to cool it down with bottles of ice, and he become more active. but the stuff is still spreading. :'(

 

[danchristopher]

Hm. It's still a little hard to see, it does kind of look like it could be fungus. Does it look fluffy or fuzzy? I recommend removing your axie from the tank and putting him in the fridge as per the instructions in the article I posted above until someone else replies and can confirm what it might be. He also looks like he has some algae spots or something on him - or is this his natural colourings? O_O Do you leave the light on in your tank a lot?

Also, I see you have gravel in your tank, your axie will have been eating this. Not really related to this issue but feel like it is important to mention: I know you've had him for over 2 years and he has obviously survived fine but this kind of gravel causes blockages which can lead to impaction and eventually death. It is recommended that you use a fine sand (I use play sand from Bunnings @ $8 a bag) as substrate as your axie can eat and pass easily. Imagine being his size and pooping out stones like that! Not pleasant.

 

[Rachel451]

Yer im sorry about the photo quality
Yes, he's always had the golden tones to him. are the yellow spots bad for him then? he has a couple on his back that have been there ever since i got him.
And the light only goes on at night for about 3-4 hours, and is switched off for the rest of the night.
It doesnt really look 'fluffy' as such, but looks more of a powder around the outter edges.

 

[danchristopher]

If they've been there since you got him then it's possible it's just part of his colouring (which in that case is very interesting) and is nothing to worry about

I'm still not sure about what this could be and don't want to recommend salt bathes if that's not going to do any good. You might have to wait until someone else who has seen something like this before can help you.

 

[Rachel451]

Okay, thank you very much for your help anyway :happy:

 

[Bellabelloo]

I would remove your axolotl from the tank and fridge it . This link explains every thing needed :- Axolotl Sanctuary.
I suspect one of the causes of this is the water being too warm, as danchristopher mentioned, you also need to take out the gravel. The pet shop also advised you to use a medication which is dangerous for axolotl, it may be worth letting them know this. What is the multi-purpose medication you are using? Also what do you feed your axolotl?


Do not do salt baths as I think the wound is too big, Tea baths may be better. I feel however that you need a vet to look at this wound as it may be bacterial and difficult to treat with out the correct medication. I do very much hope he gets better soon.

 

[Rachel451]

I have added 'multi cure' by aqua master.
It contains:
0.400mg/mL malachite green
4.00mg/mL methylene blue
2.00mg/mL acriflavine
I have used this medication before and he has had no problems with it.

I mainly feed him beef heart, as thats all he eats. i have tryed him on the blood worms, and he's just not interested. i sometimes buy him live whiteclouds to chase and eat, and about three days before this white stuff apeared, i put in 5 new fish's. once spike started to go down hill, i removed the fish's and later one died. but i think it may have been the stress that killed the fish thou.

Yer, i was not planning to do a salt bath with him, as i think this would just stress spike out to much.

I know that latey the temprature in his tank is a little warm, so i have been trying to add ice bottles into his tank to keep it cool. but in saying this, i used to live in kalgoorlie (where the summers where like 40-45*c each day) and he coped fine without any interference to keep the tank cool. im not saying that his tank was 45*c... as he was in a shadded, cool part of the house, but it certanly was alot warmer.

 

[danchristopher]

Where did you get these fish from and did you quarantine the fish before you introduced them to the tank? It's possible this could be related to your axies illness as fish can harbour disease, especially if they've been in pet store tanks.
Beef heart is okay as a treat but can be very high in fats, you'd be better off trying to get him some earthworms - I've never seen an axie able to resist them

I also believe malachite green is not recommended for use with axolotls, while he may not look distressed by it it could be causing him harm. I would remove him from the tub with the medication. You can also use filter carbon to remove the other medication from his tank water (meant to mention this earlier!)
Just because he's survived in warmer temps before doesn't mean he can survive through them now. You need to stick him in the fridge, it will help immensely until you can figure out what to do next.

 

[BuHg3oP]

My axie recently ate a stone about the same size as you have in the tank and still I am worried if he can throw it up, so I changed the substrate to sand, which is easy to pass and be pooped. As it was said before - please remove the gravel

 

[Ed]

Beef heart is okay as a treat but can be very high in fats,

If the external fat is trimmed off of the beef heart it is actually very low in fat. It all depends on what part of the heart if being used and whether or not it is just chopped up or not.. however, I have to note that it isn't in any way what we would consider a complete food and other food sources should be used with it (worms are a good choice as are pelleted foods).

In the case of emergency, you can use small whole fish that have been frozen for at least two weeks as this significantly reduces parasite burden. However, you can't use this as the staple since frozen fish carries the risk of thiamine deficiency. If it readily takes the fish, keep in mind that you can scent other items with the fish by rubbing the dead fish on it to transfer the slime and some tissue to the new item to enhance it's palatability.

Ed

 

[sheena22]

The multipurpose medication isnt any good for your axolotl malachite green and meth blue are poisonus to axolotls, even though you cant see it being bad for them it is really bad for them as i used it once and got told off on here for it, so in the future dont use the medicine as it is very toxic to them!

I would have only reccomended a salt bath but as other members have said not too Im not sure, ive had a similar looking thing on my axolotl used salt and it cleared it up, I dont know why its too big to be treated though... anyone know why?

Get the gravel out it doesnt help at all, fridging will slow it down but not cure it so follow which advice you would think of in respect to salt and tea baths

I know that feeding axies fish can be a huge problems as a lot of feeder fish carry terrible diseases as they are not bred well, so this could definitely be a cause.


So i'd say steps that will help right now are:

-Decide if you want him her in the fridge, it will slow the process of whatever he has down. It will help a lot but wont cure the axolotl

-Clear the gravel out and do some water changes keep it as clean as possible and monitor the temperature like a hawk, as if you decide you dont want him in the fridge then too hot water will speed this up a lot, and will become out of your control.

-Again if you did decide to keep in tank then monitor ammonia nitrite etc.

-Definitely stop using multipurpose medicine as it is bad for axolotls.

-Get a salt or tea bath on the go and monitor how this helps

- Id stay away from feeder fish and keep to earthworms or pellets or beef heart etc as they carry a lot of diseases.

If theres anything I've said which has contradicted anything on here then im not trying to, but this is what I would have done personally having poorly axies before!

Best of luck, i think temp or feeder fish have caused this but again may be completely wrong, but seen a lot of really bad axies with diseases similar to those in guppies and other feeder fish.

Sheena22

 

[Ed]

meth blue are poisonus to axolotls,

Methylene blue is actually safe to use with axolotls (see Axolotls - Health & Diseases).

Get the gravel out it doesnt help at all, fridging will slow it down but not cure it so follow which advice you would think of in respect to salt and tea baths

Pulling the gravel at this moment can disrupt the biological filter in the tank at this moment adding ammonia and nitrite exposure to the issues going on with the axolotl. If the gravel is going to be removed, the axolotl should be moved to the refrigerator or the gravel should be removed in stages to let the biological filter become better established elsewhere.

I know that feeding axies fish can be a huge problems as a lot of feeder fish carry terrible diseases as they are not bred well, so this could definitely be a cause.

White clouds are not typically sold as feeder fish...(at least here in the US) they are typically standard community tank fare so they tend to get better treatment than the feeder fish.

Again if you did decide to keep in tank then monitor ammonia nitrite etc.

If the axolotl is removed then if the tank doesn't recycle (or once it is done recycling), then the bacteria will need some feedings to enable the bacteria to still be able to handle the waste load once the axolotl is replaced into the tank.

-Get a salt or tea bath on the go and monitor how this helps

With tea baths are you suggesting trying a roobios (see for example BBC News - Exotic frogs reared in redbush tea in Gloucestershire) or tea tree oil?

I agree that your best option may be to fridge it and if you have a vet locally to see if you can get a more effective medication.

Some comments,

Ed

 

[Rachel451]

Im sorting out the gravel. Its going to have to stay in the until the weekend thou because i do long shifts, and by the time i finish, all the shops are closed!!

No i didnt treat the whiteclouds before putting them in because the pet shop i get them from quarinteen their fish and treat them before selling.

I know you have said that the medicine is bad for him, but i reasearched it first, and the methylene blue is actually ok for axolotls!!! i know the grren stuff is bad thou. I am only going to leave the medication in there for 3 days before i put the carbon filters back in to remove it.

I dont want to jinx anything, but it seams to be helping, as his wound and the white stuff is kind of healing. certainly around the edges anyway. and it has reduced in size.

As for feeding his, I have tryed him on axolotls pelets, and also various types of frozen fish things for axolotls but he's just to fussy! he refuses to eat anything but his beaf heart, and i am not going to change this (for the mean time anyway) as this could be just another factor to stress him out.

 

[danchristopher]

If you know the malachite green is bad, then why do you plan to continue using the medication? This seems really irresponsible. I am not trying to attack you but you obviously came here for advice and we have offered it to you and you seem to have ignored it. Have you considered putting him in the fridge? This has been suggested numerous times and each time you seem to have glazed over the suggestion. This can help immensely and will surely do wonders for your axie given that we are in the middle of summer here.

Someone has also suggested tea baths, this would probably be the best course of action and you wouldn't be subjecting your axolotl to a harmful medication. You can find the process on this page: Caudata Culture Articles - Illness Part 2 about halfway down. This should be done in conjunction with fridging in my opinion. If you fridge your axolotl then you can work on removing the gravel, bit by bit throughout the week, like Ed has suggested. And on the weekend you can go and get some sand to replace it. You can pour the water from your axolotls fridge container into the tank daily to keep ammonia up in the tank to feed your biological filter.

Does the pet store you buy the white clouds from keep them in a separate tank from every other fish they keep? Or are the in shelving-like tanks (stacked on top of one another) like most pet stores? If so, the tanks filter systems are all connected and therefore the water in all the tanks is the same so disease can be extremely prevalent; especially if gold fish tanks are connected to the system, as they tend to harbour disease more than other types of fish.

 

[iChris]

it looks like a fungus infection to me, I've seen fungus strip away a axie's flesh before. (I could be wrong though)

the fridgeing will help your axie recover and never under-estimate the healing abilities of the axolotl, you'll find that in time the wound will heal itself with proper care.

also, it's always good to see another perthian on here!

 

[Rachel451]

I added the medication because given the small amount of green in it, and given the few drops i put it, i didnt think it would bother him.
And yes i am considering fridgeing him. i am taking the advice your giving me. I put the carbon filters back in anyway today. I continued to use it as i have seen some inprovement in his wound.
I am very greatfull for everyones help on here, and i am listning to what you are saying! i am maybe planning to give him a tea bath or something.
I have taken into consideration that the stones are dangerous, and i am planning to remove them in the near future.

 

[danchristopher]

Sorry if I came off as sounding harsh, I have just seen more than one situation where advice was ignored and it led to further problems and the eventual death of ones pet, which is really the last thing anyone wants to happen.

I am glad you are planning to remove the stones and have used carbon to remove the medication. Tea baths (or perhaps salt baths if you believe it to be fungal) and fridging would be the best thing for your lotl, second to a vet visit obviously. I wish you good luck and your axie a speedy recovery.