White cloud as feeders?

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blackdog

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Hi guys,

I'm thinking of keeping some white cloud as feeder fish.

In a separate tank for breeding, then putting in a few for feeders from time to time.

Has anyone used them as feeders before? After reading some of the horror stories re mixing breeds in tanks, i just want to make sure i wont regret putting them in.

Do the white cloud have any spines or anything like that to get stuck in the axies mouth?

Do they leave the axies gills alone?

Bren
 
JWERNER said:
They should be fine. But, why not live bearers?
Click to expand...

If i'm honest, it's mainly just that the white cloud look easier :)

I have two young (under 12 mths) axies in a 2 ft tank, and although that should be enough room, i just want them to have a bit more, so im getting a bigger tank.

i'm then going to take the 2 ft tank to work and throw some white cloud in there - i dont want to have to muck around too much breeding feeders.

from what i've seen, with the right conditions, the white cloud will pretty much do what comes naturally with out too much interference from me

The live bearers look like a little too much extra work, and i would need a heated tank

So, short answer? Laziness :)
 
Live bearers are the easiest of fish period. Often they will breed in all sorts of conditions, especially Mollies. The fact that they have live young alone makes it easier. Why wait for them to spawn and then for the eggs to hatch when they can spawn, have live young, and in some cases retain sperm and have more live young without spawning.

Room temps for most are fine. I am positive their would be more work involved with getting white clouds to successfully reproduce than any live bearer.
 
I think white clouds are quite quick too compared to guppies.
Although with practice they will catch them.

I would think livebearers would be a lot easier.

Mel
 
Actually, white clouds breed very easily and prolifically under the right temps. As y'all probably know from reading around the pages on the site, they shouldn't be a staple, but could be a good snack. White clouds are beautiful, though.

One warning I want to throw out there is that not all axolotls will actively hunt fish. I am facing a guppy over-population at the moment, and it's gotten so bad that I have had to pre-kill and fish and make sure they find their way to the floor of the tank before my axolotls will eat them. It's just something to think about. You might want to see how well they pursue one fish before you breed dozens. I don't know if my axolotls' behaviors are the norm, or a little odd, though.
 
jclee said:
I have had to pre-kill .
Click to expand...

Aww no! Thats awful!
Maybe just leave a few in and keep the rest seperate. I think once they have hunted they'll realise that it works to get them food.
Lazy are our pets.
They probably sit there watching the fish thinking....'if i wait long enough my human slave will actually kill one for me..sweeeet!'

Mel
 
melfly said:
Aww no! Thats awful!
Maybe just leave a few in and keep the rest seperate. I think once they have hunted they'll realise that it works to get them food.
Lazy are our pets.
They probably sit there watching the fish thinking....'if i wait long enough my human slave will actually kill one for me..sweeeet!'

Mel
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, after picking off a couple of guppies that were swimming low, the rest quickly learned to swim in the top third of the tank. The same thing happened when I had a school of (constantly breeding) white clouds in a crayfish tank. My guppies (which were only one male and one adult female after the initial few were eaten), have had two batches of fry, and are now on their third, in the time that has passed since the axolotls have last caught and eaten a guppy. The first batch isn't even fully grown, yet, and momma's about to pop out more. The poor thing. I might retire her to a spacious and boy-free life after this.
:)
 
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White clouds are good as feeders nowhere near as easy to breed as guppies tho! (i mean they are meant to be easy but gotta get all the conditions spot on for them!) guppies are easier just a bloke and 2 gals and you got yourself a constant supply(i dont use heaters room temp is fine! had them in axie tank at 17degrees and they were thriving!) but as fish go white clouds are stunning little fish I have 16 in my smaller tank with my breeding guppies and 6 in with my axolotl was 9 but he got a few! They are pretty quick so their survival rate is alot higher than guppies, also they are a tad smaller than guppies so I cant imagine they could cause an axie any harm!

But as others have said for ease of breeding for food guppies or another livebearer are your best bet could end up with hundreds of fry every 20-30days! I think a couple of my white clouds may be pregnant but I cant be bothered with messing with microfood for the tiny larve so my guppies may end up eating them!

Id rather have white clouds in with my axie as they seem to produce alot less waste than guppies so dont make a mess of the place, I still breed guppies tho just as a regular supply as they are easier to catch!) then i just top up my minnows with store bought ones every now and again when the schoal starts thinning out (quarrantining them first of course)

Oooh and minnows are sooooo bloody hardy they can take pretty much anything you throw at them!

Shrimp are good too! apparantly red cherry shrimp are easy to breed!
 
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i've a secondary breeder tank with both red cherry shrimp and white clouds, the problem i've got is the axie just will not chase and catch the white clouds but will actively hunt for the shrimps - quite frustrating :) i was thinking of moving all of the minnow (about 15) into the axie tank but then its the whole extra waste thing plus the wastage from feeding them... what to do, what to do
 
Ive seen my guy really pounces on the minnows at huge speeds in a big cloud of sand! (its really impressive i gotta try and catch it on film!) I dont know if he actually manages to catch them in this way tho as they are so quick, usually he just hides in the plants or in a cave with his face poking out to ambush them when they swim pass. Guppys on the otherhand he seems to be able to just gulp em down as he swims along but they quickly learn to stay out of the way if they survive long enough!

After reading up on breeding it doesnt seem that difficult at all (a little bit more work than guppies but not alot!) primarily just something suitable for them to spawn in it seems oh and suitable food for the tiny larvae like infusoria.

Im gonna see how it goes letting mine breed au naturale in my big axie tank as there are tons of plants for babies to hide in and see if i get any little fry survivors, (if i do i may dedicate a tank to breeding them) i just dont rate the frys chances in with hungry guppies and zebra danios to me an axie seems like a safer bet haha.

Thanks for the inspiration with youre thread, would never had considered breeding them as I have guppies for that (just thought theyd be a hastle) but i really do prefer the mountain minnows especially for use as axie tankmates/food if all go's well il donate my guppys to someone and just concentrate on the minnows!

Anyone know the average turn over for minnows? (like guppys having babies every 20-30days?) is it as quick a process or does it take longer? a few of the girls bellys have been bulging for bout 2-3 weeks now should i be expecting something soon?

Sorry blackdog feel like I just stole your thread there haha! hopefully any answers can benifit us both!
 
Don't be sorry Ed, I have only just had a chance to come back to the forum and i was pleased to see so much info for me.

I also found a sticky related to just this topic (should looked first :) ) - http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...olotl-free-all/62142-fish-newts-axolotls.html - there is the link for anyone else interested.

I reckon i'll probably try the white cloud.

I think i'll just start with a few in the right ratio, get the tank right and see what happens!

thanks everyone for the info and assistance

Bren
 
That thread is based on the opposite from your question. It has nothing to do with keeping WC's as feeders, it is intended to separate the bad from the good as far as tank mates.

Or, am I missing something?
 
Yeah just lists the good and bad and yes ideally you dont want fish with an axie because of the obvious dangers and also the extra waste they produce. But there are a couple of fish that pose very little if not no threat whatsoever to axies (like minnows) (only downside is extra waste so better filtration or more cleaning may be required) people use them to liven the tank up abit as axies hide alot sometimes for days at a time haha! They also double up as a nutritious snack! yum yum! I really only have them in there to stimulate my axie abit so he can actually hunt down moving prey its abit of a challenge for him but keeps him fit rather than just having food handed to him on a plate!

I would never put anything in with him if it was dangerous minnows are safe just a little more regular spot cleaning is needed im guessing thats why it might not be reccommened also I dont think fish are really a part of axies natural diet but they dont seem to complain when they catch em! I guess a larger group of rapid swimming fish could probably stress them out too so that may be another reason why its not really reccommended as long as your sensible with it and understand that it is an axies home not a fish home you can do it easy you just gotta treat the fisheys as food (you wouldnt throw 20worms in the tank so why would you throw 20 fish in?) just gotta be sensible with it and shouldnt have any problems with fish and axies! (providing they are minnows or gups!)

Oooh just read on a fish forum a thread about feeders and in that lil community it seems frowned upon unless it is necessary, they seem to belive if the fish will except other food or dead food then it is unecessarry to feed live fish as it causes suffering to the feeder fish blablabla! Dont really think a guppy with an axie really has time to suffer its swimming by happily one second and just disapears the next!

Another biggie as why its not reccommended is introduction of disease/parasites etc so percautions must be taken!
 
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JWERNER said:
That thread is based on the opposite from your question. It has nothing to do with keeping WC's as feeders, it is intended to separate the bad from the good as far as tank mates.

Or, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you musta missed a bit. It lists the good the bad and the ugly of several types of breeds of feeders and tankmates etc. Mentions WC's as probably the best tank mates if you must have tank mates.

As i'm thinking more along the lines of "food" as opposed to "mates" - we should be ok :)

@ ted22 re the fishy community and feeders - i too get the feeling that "feeders" is an "f" word as far as some of them are concerned. I went to a few shops in town looking for feeders, and one little old lady was most unimpressed with my motives for buying her fish, she refused to sell me any knowing i was planning fish-icide :)

Lesson learned - don't tell them my evil plans!

bren
 
blackdog said:
Yeah, you musta missed a bit. It lists the good the bad and the ugly of several types of breeds of feeders and tankmates etc. Mentions WC's as probably the best tank mates if you must have tank mates.

As i'm thinking more along the lines of "food" as opposed to "mates" - we should be ok :)
Click to expand...

I didnt miss anything at all.

That article has nothing to do with feeders and explains that some fish that are a exception ( White Clouds being one ) are a exception cause they are to fast to get eaten.

Now, quite a few people made it clear that you have easier choices but I see you are dead set on using White Clouds. Would you still use them if everyone simply said no?

Again, you can use them but we just had to share what would in our opinions be easier as well.

Good luck and make sure you have plenty of alternative food items cause the turn over on White Clouds as well as development rate is not that hot for such a idea as this.

Let me know if you get into breeding any long fin Clouds. I love those things.
 
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As far as I know, guppies are tropical fish...does anyone know what temperature a guppy should be kept at? If it's above 24 degrees Celsius as I suspect, then dropping them in your axie tank seems just a bit cruel to me, after all, the guppy is probably going to survive hours or even days before being caught. I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of feeder fish, but if you're going to do it, at least use a fish such as a White Cloud Mountain Minnow, which is adapted to cold water and of a speed which gives it a fighting chance.
 
From my experience, the feeder guppies can tolerate a much broader temp range than fancy guppies, but you would definitely have to treat them for ich and parasites. (This is what I did during a two-month quarantine.) I have not tried any fancy types of guppies in my cool water tanks. I agree that they might not be the most suitable for those lower temps, and those that weren't eaten would possibly fall ill from the lower temps.
 
I just feel White cloud are easier for me, thats all

in particular, water temp - based on what i know my tank sits on at home, what i've seen and read says i have more chance of success with Wc as opposed to guppies. I plan to have the breeder tank in my office, which is colder than home.

From what i've been shown, the colder water will not be comfortable or conducive for the guppies.

But hey, we arent playing for sheep stations here, i'll throw $20 worth of WCs in and see what happens.

Thanks for the assistance everyone

bren
 
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