Which Calcium supplement?

[ferret_corner]

My tiger salamanders and tree frogs mostly eat crickets. My local petshop quit carrying the brand I was comfortable with.

Which of these is best?

Zoo Med Repti Calcium w/D3
http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?cPath=22&products_id=2216

Zoo Med Repti Calcium no D3
http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=2217

or

T-Red Tree frog dust
http://www.petco.com/product/11005/...ee-Frog-Dust-ICB-Insect-Cricket-Balancer.aspx

 

[joonas]

I would prefer Tree Frog Dust because it is designed for amphibians. Other two products are formulated mainly reptiles in mind. I have used it succesfully for several amphibians, including tree frogs and tiger salamanders.
If I recall correctly, Tree Frog Dust is specially designed to complement cricket rich diet.

 

[Jan]

The brand I am most familiar with is Rep-Cal calcium with vitamin D3 which I use in combination with Rep-Cal Herptivite multi-vitamins as a cricket dust. Vitamin D3 is a critical component of calcium metabolism - so, the product without D3 would not be beneficial in amphibians not exposed to UVB...which in itself is controversial.

Of the two remaining products you have listed with D3, I would use the Zoo Med product as it has a higher content of D3 and calcium and does not contain Vitamin A (in T-Rex dust) which can compete with vit D3 for absorption. It is not that vitA shouldn't be used it is just that the ratios of vitD and vitA have to be appropriate. Hypervitaminosis A may also lead to metabolic bone disease.

Dust crickets every third or 4th feeding and dust directly before feeding. Best to hand feed as the dust will dissipate quickly thru self grooming of the crickets, etc. if crickets are left to wander in the viv.

 

[freves]

I only use Rep Cal with D3 https://www.mbreptiles.com/images/products/37/thumb_PinkCal[1].jpg
I have never tried any of the products that you asked about. Rep Cal has been around a long time and usually sticks very well to feeder insects. I mix it 3:1 with Herptivite made by the same company. I usually only supplement my caudates a few times a month however since I provide a variety of foods so I am not sure how much they require it.
Chip

 

[Jennewt]

None of the above.

The "gold standard" supplement is one that includes vitamins, as well as the calcium and D3. Also, the product must carry an expiration date. In order to lengthen the shelf life of the vitamins, it is helpful if they are kept separately from the calcium powder (i.e., a 2-part system).

What I use is a 1:1 mixture of RepCal (with D3) + HerptiVite. Another brand that meets these standards is Nekton-Rep, which is a single powder with a shorter shelf life.

I will also say that RepCal with D3 is basically identical to a couple of the products you put in your poll; the difference is that it gives an expiration date.

 

[ferret_corner]

ugh what kills me is RepCal is what I used to use. Its not available down here. Considering the small number of animals I have that need this I should just buy it online. I had a reason as to why I wanted to purchase the powder from my local store but it currently escapes me.....

OH the Zoo Med Repti Calcium does have an expiration date. So does the Tree frog dust, but its a sticker and not printed on the bottle.

 

[Jennewt]

ugh what kills me is RepCal is what I used to use. Its not available down here. Considering the small number of animals I have that need this I should just buy it online. I had a reason as to why I wanted to purchase the powder from my local store but it currently escapes me.....

OH the Zoo Med Repti Calcium does have an expiration date. So does the Tree frog dust, but its a sticker and not printed on the bottle.

In that case, I think either of them should be fine. I don't think there are any substantial differences between different brands of calcium + D3.

 

[Jan]

In that case, I think either of them should be fine. I don't think there are any substantial differences between different brands of calcium + D3.

Actually, there are considerable differences between products if looking at guaranteed analysis:

Rep-Cal calcium w/ VitD3 (ultrafine powder) 400,000 IU D3/Kg and 35 - 40 % calcium
Zoo Med Repti Calcium w/D3 (ultrafine powder) 10,390 IU D3/Kg and 38 - 43% calcium
T-Rex Tree Frog Dust 4,000 IU D3/Kg and 14 - 16% calcium

The last product having 100 times less VitD3 and approximately half of the calcium content per given weight than that of the first product.

To your point, what we don't really know at this time is what is 'clinically' significant. There aren't 'RDA' recs for amphibians/caudates with regard to calcium, D3 or other vitamins. Calcium metabolism and vit needs are poorly understood in the amphibian.

Lacking scientific data, we are left with with what others do..... and guesses - should we supplement in a non-MBD animal? If so how (gut load vs dust....another whole topic)? How often? Is supplementation necessary if the animal is fed nutritionally balanced foods? What are we trying to achieve - prevention of MBD....but that appears to be multifactorial .....etc, etc.

 

[ferret_corner]

Actually, there are considerable differences between products if looking at guaranteed analysis:

Rep-Cal calcium w/ VitD3 (ultrafine powder) 400,000 IU D3/Kg and 35 - 40 % calcium
Zoo Med Repti Calcium w/D3 (ultrafine powder) 10,390 IU D3/Kg and 38 - 43% calcium
T-Rex Tree Frog Dust 4,000 IU D3/Kg and 14 - 16% calcium

The last product having 100 times less VitD3 and approximately half of the calcium content per given weight than that of the first product.

To your point, what we don't really know at this time is what is 'clinically' significant. There aren't 'RDA' recs for amphibians/caudates with regard to calcium, D3 or other vitamins. Calcium metabolism and vit needs are poorly understood in the amphibian.

Lacking scientific data, we are left with with what others do..... and guesses - should we supplement in a non-MBD animal? If so how (gut load vs dust....another whole topic)? How often? Is supplementation necessary if the animal is fed nutritionally balanced foods? What are we trying to achieve - prevention of MBD....but that appears to be multifactorial .....etc, etc.

heeheehee for my sake lets operate on the idea that this is just to cover all bases. My crickets are kept and fed a gutload. But once or twice a month/week the crickets are dusted. I've been out of dust for quite a while and am tired of the petshops' empty promises and decided I was just gonna get what was on hand.

I'll feel better when someone has figured out the exact nutritional requirements our little pets. But for now I think doing the best with what we have at hand is all we can do.

I believe Jenn and i both have tiger sals that are quite old and blind. Maybe we'll look for other members who have old but sighted tigers and compare diets and housing. So many variables but maybe we'll find the commonalities and distinct differences.

 

[Steve B]

None of the above.

The "gold standard" supplement is one that includes vitamins, as well as the calcium and D3. Also, the product must carry an expiration date. In order to lengthen the shelf life of the vitamins, it is helpful if they are kept separately from the calcium powder (i.e., a 2-part system).

What I use is a 1:1 mixture of RepCal (with D3) + HerptiVite. Another brand that meets these standards is Nekton-Rep, which is a single powder with a shorter shelf life.

I will also say that RepCal with D3 is basically identical to a couple of the products you put in your poll; the difference is that it gives an expiration date.

Very helpful. Thanks!