Where are all the Broken-striped newts?

[nate]

Just wanting to post on a somewhat mind-boggling situation I've come across this year.

The past few months, I've been looking to acquire to some Broken-stripe newts, N. v. dorsalis. Much to my surprise, no one has them anymore. All of the people who I used to know that had them have either had them die off or simply don't keep them aymore. Carolina Biological use to offer them by the thousands but no longer; they offer Cynops orientalis instead.

I would say that about 5 years ago, these were the most commonly kept and available Notopthalmus variety in the U.S. A quick search of the forums here shows only one recent hobby-related post about them...from a European keeper! Isn't it odd that the most beautiful of the legal U.S. salamandrids (we all know N. meridionalis is the MOST beautiful ) has slipped away from us?

Are there no more Noto-heads left here in the states?

 

[bxboy57]

N. V. Dorsalis

Hey Nate, I've noticed the same thing in NJ, and the northeast in general, regarding the broken stripers. I haven't even seen the common easterns in any of the shops for the past two years. I've also spoken to Carolina Bio, and they mentioned that n.v. dorsalis was becoming harder to find in the Carolinas, where they were collected. That is a beautiful species, a bit smaller than the nominate form, I think. They were all over the place several years ago. The pet shop owner was saying that none of the notos has been around, and he cannot sell any taricha anymore either. Something going on?

 

[nate]

Well, most of the states where N. viridescens occurs have laws against selling native wildlife, which is why eastern newts aren't as common in pet shops anymore. NJ may also have some additional laws against selling native US species, which would account for the Taricha. I think I remember specifically seeing Cynops pyrrhogaster as an illegal species to sell/own in NJ on their website. And certainly, dorsalis is losing habitat and is harder to find, but really that can be said for just about every newt in the world.

I just think it's really odd that not many (if any) of the US hobbyists on this board are keeping one of the most striking newts in the world. What if suddenly they were illegal to collect? We'd all be out of luck, eh?

 

[bxboy57]

n. v. dorsalis

All out of luck Nate.

I haven't checked the local state laws, but I'm going by what the local pet shop guys are saying about availability of species. Both the nominate form of noto and dorsalis were readily available in NY and NJ maybe two years ago, and the eastern is native to the region. I've seen them all over the shops, and the retailers were able to aquire them for sale, along with the tarichas. I'm not sure which sub species of taricha, but they called them California or Oregon newts usually. So, if laws are in place, they are relatively new, with regards to the sale of native species. I get the feeling that the populations are declining, because if they aren't illegal, people would be looking to make a quick and easy buck, collecting hundreds of these guys at a time. Maybe some people in the Carolinas can do some field work and see what's going on. If I was closer to South Carolina, I'd love to go.

 

[Jennewt]

I just think it's really odd that not many (if any) of the US hobbyists on this board are keeping one of the most striking newts in the world. What if suddenly they were illegal to collect? We'd all be out of luck, eh?

Frankly, I'm not so surprised. I would attribute the lack of N. v. dorsalis to 3 things: (1) wholesalers no longer selling them (2) Notos being tricky to keep alive long-term, and difficult to raise offspring to maturity, and (3) the general tendency for the serious American keepers/breeders to stop working with Notophthalmus as soon as they have a chance to pick up some more "exotic" species.

How many CB Notophthalmus (any variety) exist in the US? And how many keepers have kept any WC Notophthalmus alive in captivity for >4 years? For both of these things, I think the numbers are very small.

 

[freves]

I totally agree with Jen on the point of many keepers focusing on exotic species. I am just as guilty of that as anyone. Another point to keep in mind however is that at least some state laws restrict the keeping of native species. A few weeks ago I was hiking in some nearby mountains and observed a group of beautiful, strongly green colored Notopthalmus in a pond. My first thought was "Why am I not keeping these?" In VA however it is illegal to keep more than five individuals of any native, non-protected species. In addition I think that it is very enjoyable to observe the local species in the wild and enjoy the exotics at home.
Chip

 

[jewett]

I have wanted to keep Notopthalmus since I got seriously into this hobby, and I have occasionally seen them in years past in a pet store. But I refrained from buying any because they looked to be in pretty poor health, and I didnt want to support the wild caught pet trade. So I waited in the hopes of finding some offered here, and I do read threads where peoples Noto's have bred and they have eggs, but no luck - it seems they are never offered. I guess I am going to go back to that pet store and see if I can purchase any. As Nate said, I already feel like I have been out of luck with this speceis for years...

PS I just found an ad on Kingsnake. Though I really dislike Kingsnake these days I am considering but I would still much prefer to get some from a fellow hobbiest from Caudata.org.

 

[lilsoul]

Hi

everyone I have had good luck breeding my n.v.louisianensis I have bunch new morphs and thay are doing great this the second time thay bread for me

 

[jewett]

Thats great James. How long have you had the parents, and what sort of set up are they maintained in? How long ago was the first breeding, and how are the offspring doing now? And lastly, any chance some of your morphs will become available

 

[Otterwoman]

HI Jen,
In December I'll have had my Notos for four years. Two of them were from my boyfriend's office tank and they were in captivity at least two years.

 

[lilsoul]

I have had the parents for 4 years keep them fully aqutic with a few spots of land and plants but they never leave the water they bread the frist time 2 years ago and then in march this year and the offspring are doing great and geting big I will be posting some once thay all morph

 

[Ed]

N.v.louisianensis was in my experience fairly easy to breed when we had them here at work. The nominate form that i have worked with were much more difficult to keep long term (although I suspect that local populations that contain neotonics maybe the best route).

I haven't seen any of the native Notos for a few years in the hobby.
With the NJ laws, it is legal to sell Taricha and Cynops pyrrogaster, you cannot sell any tiger salamanders, larval ambystomids, axolotls, or mudpuppies.

Attempting to establish and keep established populations of animals in the hobby is one of the things TreeWalkers is working to establish (by the way thier first magazine has come out and the Amphibian Steward Network Handbook is due very soon).

Ed

 

[lilsoul]

YES n.v.louisianensis are easy to keep but I also had a pair of n.v.viridescens that bread for me after 2 years of haveing them but then hurcaine katrena hit and I lost all of my newts exsecpt for 1 pair of my n.v.louisianensis

 

[eldaldo]

I have also noticed that I am one of the few noto keepers on the site. I have a male and female and am really hoping that they will breed this winter. I hope to always be able to keep some of this species since they were always my favorite woodland creature as a child. the whole red eft stage is just so beautiful and unusual. If mine ever do breed I will definitely offer up the eggs and efts on the forum.

 

[bxboy57]

Notos

I collected and bred n. v.v. several years ago. Keeping the adults alive was relatively easy. Cool, clean and fed well, they do fine. But then they laid eggs, in the java moss. They are ravenous eaters of their own eggs, but I managed to save some. They ate baby blackworms, and whatever else lived in the parents tank water, as I transfered them out with some, along with the plants the eggs were on. Once they morphed, they seemed hard to feed, and I couldn't get them going. Unfortunately I lost them all. I tried fruit flies, live blackworms, frozen bloodworms. Nothing, no luck. The efts certainly are beautiful though. Little neon orange, red creatures roaming the woods during rainstorms.