What IS legal to keep in Washington State?

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Irvin Loblolly

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I found the DNR site that has prohibited invasive species. I read that, and I hear that you cannot collect native species (I havent seen it anywhere yet but do not doubt it at all), and that you cannot have native species.

This leads me to the next question. What CAN you have in Washington state. Is there any other Washingtonians that can help shed a little light on what I can keep, or purchase legally?
 
I had read through that list, its posted somewhere else on the forum also. I tried to google something that says you cant collect in Washington but I cant find it. Several people on-line have said it but I cant find it in writing. I emailed the DNR for further information. I see that many of the indigenous species have a listing for "of interest" or something similar but not that says anything that has a legal status. Seems like this has turned out to be like the GE Silicone II with BioSeal threads, lots of threads repeating things with no references (I'm using the bioseal labelled silicone in 2 tanks now with no problems ((GE said it is the same formula as before)).

I've been here for two years and haven't seen very much wildlife period. I haven't seen any frogs, lizards, newts, or things like that. Coming from the south, I do not miss the snakes in particular.
 
The only common sp. I see unlisted is the genus Cynops(to make Petsmart and Petco happy I assume...)
 
I realize this thread is a bit stale, but it's still appropriate to chime in. The list provided above is NOT a list of prohibited species for Washington. It's a list of examples of prohibited species for Washington. The code itself prohibits genera and families in their entirety. You can't possess Dicamptodon or Ambystoma at all, nor any species of Paramesotriton. Oddly, they missed Cynops for no obvious reason. Laotriton was Paramesotriton when the law was established, and is thus prohibited, and the same applies to the former Triturus: Ommatotriton, Lissotriton, and Ichthyosaura are all banned.

To quote from WAC 220-12-090 RCW 77.12.020 [note that native species are banned from possession under other codes, and this code is only applied to exotic species]
(v) In the family Ambystomatidae: Mole salamanders. In the genus Ambystoma. Except for the native species Ambystoma tigrinum mavortium, Western tiger salamander, and Ambystoma tigrinum melanostictum, Tiger salamander.
(vii) In the family Cryptobranchidae: Giant salamanders and hellbenders, all members of the genera Andrias and Cryptobranchus.
(viii) In the family Dicamptodontidae, American giant salamander, all members of the genus Dicamptodon, except for the native species: Dicamptodon tenebrosus, Pacific giant salamander, and Dicamptodon copei, Cope's giant salamander.
(ix) In the family Hynobiidae: Mountain salamanders, all members of the genera Batrachuperus, Hynobius, Liua, Onychodactylus, Pachyhynobius, Pseudohynobius, Ranodon, Salamandrella.
(x) In the family Plethodontidae, subfamily Desmognathinae: All members of the genus Desmognathus, dusky salamander.
(xi) In the family Plethodontidae, subfamily Plethodontinae: All members of the genera Aneides (climbing salamanders); Batrachoseps (slender salamanders); Eurycea (American brook salamanders); Gyrinophilus (cave salamanders); Hemidactylium (four-toed salamanders); Hydromantes (web-toed salamanders); Plethodon (woodland and slimy salamanders); Pseudotriton (mud or red salamanders), and Speleomantes (European salamanders).
(xii) In the family Proteidae, mudpuppies, all members of the genus Necturus and Proteus.
(xiii) In the family Salamandridae: Newts, all members of the genera Chioglossa; Eichinotriton (mountain newts); Euproctus (European mt. Salamander); Neurergus (Kurdistan newts); Notophthalmus (red-spotted newts); Pachytriton (Chinese newts); Paramesotriton (warty newts); Salamandrina (speckled salamander); Taricha except for the native species Taricha granulosa granulosa the Northern rough-skinned newt, and Triturus (alpine newts).
(xiv) In the family Sirenidae, sirens, all species of the genera Pseudobranchus and Siren.
Click to expand...

So what's legal?
Salamandra, Lyciasalamandra, Mertensiella, Tylototriton, Cynops, Hypselotriton
Phaeognathus, Bolitoglossa, Pseudoeurycea, Lineatriton, Nototriton, Chiropterotriton, Nyctanolis, Cryptotriton, Oedipina, Thorius, Stereochilus, Urspelerpes, non-native Ensatina, Karsenia
Non-native Rhyacotriton! Probably overlooked because only a single species was originally recognized, and was thus protected by being native.

Off the top of my head, that's it, barring a couple tropical lungless salamanders that slipped my mind. Other genera were banned under old names, and don't become unbanned when their names change. Conversely, those which change INTO a banned group, do become banned as well :p

Unlisted banned genera include Atylodes, Calotriton, Ommatotriton, Lissotriton, Ichthyosaura, Laotriton, while a number of neotenic lungless salamanders were moved into Eurycea, which is specifically listed. Someone was on glue When they did this, since it's obvious they meant to include Tylototriton, but botched it and only listed the lowland maritime Echinotriton instead ["mountain salamanders"!]

Most families are completely banned: Hynobiidae, Proteidae, Cryptobranchidae, Amphiumidae, Ambystomatidae, former Dicamptodontidae, Sirenidae.
 
I was hoping to move to WA and my dream is to research breeding techniques of rare species. I have heard that you can get special permits but I wonder how difficult this would be. I know that it entails ensuring that NO escapes are possible.

I understand why they are doing it though.

I also have a question about the above list. You say Tylototriton can be kept, but what about Echinotriton?
 
Echinotriton is right there in the list of prohibited species. Spelled wrong and described wrong. In many courts, a scientific name spelled wrong would be treated as invalid. That is, the taxon doesn't exist and therefore can't be legislated. Many but perhaps not all, so in that light I'd consider it clearly illegal.

They meant Tylototriton I'm sure, but botched it so badly they basically made tylos legal. You can argue that Echinotriton is part of Tylototriton, but you can't make the reverse argument because Tylototriton is the older name and is always used in preference to the younger name. They prohibited the younger [by about 100 years]name, thinking it included the older [ie, "mountain newts"], when it specifically doesn't. Silly bureaucrats. I don't think a court could conceivably draw a different conclusion without it being overturned.
 
That is the worst list I have ever seen. They might be worse than NJ.
 
You haven't seen British Columbia's list yet. In fact, I doubt that most people in BC have either...but I'll get into that later ;)
 
Wow, and I thought Oregons prohibited species list was bad. Unfortunately these laws are very easy to get around. Red eared sliders are prohibited in washington and oregon, yet I have seen red eared sliders for sale in a petco in Washington and I have seen them advertised at petco's in Oregon. It sucks that the laws are getting so strict but it is because of people who release animals into states that are not they're native habitat but yet they thrive in it and outcompete native species which leads to decline in numbers and could eventually end up causing the extinction of a species. Oregon has alot of trouble with their native turtle species because of invading species such as red eared sliders outcompeting them. Both species of native turtles(western pond turtle & western painted turtle) are listed as critically endangered because of this. The Oregon spotted frog is also listed as endangered. Hopefully they will be repopulated in Oregon and eventually taken off the endangered species list. Anyways, so if you ever wonder why certain species are prohibited in certain states, that is why.
 
If that list is legally binding (I doubt it) It is full of holes. N. strauchii strauchii is on the list, but N. strauchii barani isn't?
Not to mention the loopholes in the incorrect naming. Since Triturus italicus for example doesn't exist, since it's Lissotriton now, if it's legally binding you can get away with keeping them.

Weird that Cynops isn't on the list. If there is one genus that is massively imported it's that one.

Looking at lists like that I'm happy that our 'illegal animals' list here is so short.
 
No, ALL Neurergus are banned in WA. Don't confuse the Washington list of "example" species with what the actual LAW says, which I have quoted above.

As for Triturus italicus, a name change doesn't alter legal status. The name "Triturus italicus" belongs to Lissotriton italicus, forever and no matter what name might be used in future. The organism hasn't changed, whatever name is used. All newts could be reverted to Triturus with perfect validity if one was so inclined.

It can help to examine what references were used as standards when laws are written, and whether those references themselves are actually mentioned by the law [as they are in Oregon]. Barring that, a close look at context can often reveal details which define how certain terms are being used. A law written in 1985, or written using references of 1985, will use definitions of Triturus which includes what are now Lissotriton and Ichthyosaura, and will likewise use a Euproctus which includes Calotriton.

Here in Alberta, original revisions of the law prohibited "northern crested newt, Triturus cristatus". At the time, only a single species of crested newt was widely recognized. However, only a single subspecies was called the "northern" crested newt, Triturus cristatus cristatus. By combining the common name for one subspecies with the scientific name for the entire [at the time] species, they effectively narrowed the law to only apply to that one form. Even though T.dobrogicus, T.arntzeni, T.carnifex, etc., were all included in T.cristatus, they all remained legal because none was ever "northern". The law doesn't care about taxonomy per se - only about which organisms are being specified in the current context.

Of course, every legal system has its own precedents and additional laws to take into account, but these are basic issues of logic which apply regardless.

In WA, there are a couple special cases. One is "Eichinotriton, mountain newts". One could argue this to be inapplicable because there is no such organism, and even a one letter difference in spelling is enough to define completely different organisms [viz Eublepharus and Eublepharis]. Additionally, one would have to refer back to Frank and Ramus to see what they were refering to for sure, but Echinotriton are hardly "mountain newts", and the name Echinotriton cannot [it's not a "legal" option in zoological nomenclature] be used for species related to Tylototriton verrucosus. So if they meant to ban tylos, which ARE "mountain newts", they failed.

The other special case is Laotriton. On the one hand, it was originally classified as Paramesotriton, which is banned. On the other, it was unknown at the time the law was written, and is now considered to be neither the banned Pachytriton nor the banned Paramesotriton. However, it IS related to both, and was included in one, so it could also be argued that if they had known about it, they would have meant to include it, regardless of the name used.

The bottom line is though, that organisms which are mentioned in law, do not change in legal status just because their names change. It's problematic though, if names change from an unregulated taxon to a regulated one. The winning argument would likely be that any new form of a regulated taxon would be regulated, so too should any which changes name.
 
WA laws are pretty easy to get around.
Almost all of those species are both kept, bred, and sold here in WA by private breeders as well as Pet Shops.

As far as native species. You can own certain ones if you have a permit to do so. It also really depends on your county as each one is really unto themselves.
The lady that runs the permits is kind of a hard one, but if you prove you know what you are doing and will be doing it safely you are fine.

We sold native snake species in the reptile store I managed and we were required to keep documentation of them having been captive bred. And give similar documentation to buyers. If you could not prove your documentation of captive bred your animals could be taken. The most popular were rubber boas and blue racers.

WAC 220-12-090 Classification - Nonnative aquatic animal species | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
 
I live in Washington, and I've never had any problem with the critters I keep. Pet stores around my house not only sell prohibited species, but at prohibited sizes/ages (baby red eared sliders are rather popular. The sign says you can only buy them for educational/scientific purposes, but they don't check your credentials). It's like the bike helmet laws- no one pays attention, not even the cops.
 
Alright there seems to be much dispute about Washington legislation on native and invasive species. I have read the legislation 4 times through now just to assure myself I am being legal. These next items will be quoted directly from the website on administrative code.

First off you must have a permit to collect certain animals that are outside of the "no fly" list. This includes ALL wildlife except those defined by this quote: "It is unlawful to take live wildlife, wild birds (except starlings, house sparrows and rock doves by falconers, and rock doves by bird dog trainers), or game fish from the wild without a permit provided for by rule of the commission and issued by the director."

Secondly this legislation defines import animals that are banned cannot be " hold, possess, propagate, offer for sale, sell, transfer, or release"

Third important detail is that you MUST have proper records of catch area and know exactly where you found the animal (I take pictures of the area where I found the animal and certain distinguishable landmarks.) " It is unlawful to possess or hold in captivity live wild animals, wild birds, or game fish unless lawfully acquired and possessed. Proof of lawful acquisition and possession must be produced for inspection on request of a department employee. Such proof shall contain:"
I will include the website here since I have left out some legislation:
WAC 232-12-064: Live wildlife.
If anyone needs a perfect example of how to collect wildlife in the state of Washington I will post an example below the legislative post.
 
Sorry for posting so much on this subject but I found a helpful page for all Washingtonians who wish to know of legalities on foreign salamander and amphibian species... Unfortunately our "no-no" list is quite vast which is why our pet stores are practically void of most salamanders and newts.

I am sure that the department of fish and wildlife has this same easy list for other states but I have outlined Washington in particular.

Department of fish and wildlife (Washington) amphibian prohibition list:
Invasive Aquatic Plants - Aquatic Invasive Species | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

Hope this helps especially with so many sales going on now throughout this website, be alert of the laws and regulation.

Just hit Ctrl F and find the species you are looking for really quite simple. And I have no idea why it says "aquatic Plants" under the hyperlink I assure you its amphibians

Also I feel that it's important to tell you all that red-eared sliders are not illegal to keep in Washington they are not "prohibited"
 
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I find it interesting enough to point out that Amybstoma Andersonii was on that list until about two months ago. I know, because I am from Washington and obtained andersoni in Oregon while going to college. I was looking at what was legal to take back for breaks. However, the ambystoma andersoni photo on the list was that of a terrestrial andersoni, which I believe was changed because it was assumed to be terrestrial in most cases. It's interesting because there are quite a few andersoni keepers in Washington that have been sold andersoni while from shops while they were still illegal. I'm guessing it was changed for the fact that most of them do stay aquatic.

This list seems to change pretty often and without warning. I wouldn't be surprised if other Washington keepers might notice some new changes to this list, possibly finding some of their new caudates to be illegal now. It's a good thing to go back to every few months or so, just to check.
 
That is NOT the list of prohibited species. It is a list of examples. The prohibitions do not seem to have changed, and all non-native Ambystoma are prohibited in WA.

The word of the law:
(1) Prohibited aquatic animal species. RCW 77.12.020
These species are considered by the commission to have a high risk of becoming an invasive species and may not be possessed, imported, purchased, sold, propagated, transported, or released into state waters except as provided in RCW 77.15.253. Which allows for the transport of prohibited aquatic animal species to the department, or to another destination designated by the director, in a manner designated by the director, for the purposes of identifying a species or reporting the presence of a species. The unlawful release of a prohibited aquatic animal species is a gross misdemeanor. A second violation within five years is a class C felony.
The following species are classified as prohibited animal species:
(a) AMPHIBIANS

...
v) In the family Ambystomatidae: Mole salamanders. In the genus Ambystoma. Except for the native species Ambystoma tigrinum mavortium, Western tiger salamander, and Ambystoma tigrinum melanostictum, Tiger salamander.
Click to expand...
WAC 220-12-090 Classification - Nonnative aquatic animal species | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
 
Thank you for this catch it appears I did not read correctly that these were just examples.
 
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