Question: Wanting to upgrade

[fouramigos]

Hey all
Now I have my 4 terestrial juvenille newts, I am totally new and didn't purchase these myself, a friend did thinking it was a nice gesture...originally there were 5 but Houdinni escaped out of the previous enclosure.
Then I discovered they are land bearing creatures right now, so I got a plastic container about 12" long, 7" wide and 4" deep, filled with terestrial substrate that I keep moistened. The lid has holes for breathing and I have many hiding places as well as a little container with water and some rocks.
Now I have recently purchased a 30 gallon tank, 3' long, 1' wide and 2 1/2 ' tall, my newts are maybe 2" long each, would this be a good upgrade for them, or would it really even matter for them? And should I again keep the home fully terestrial or should I do half half?
These guys were bought at a pet shop, I've had them for over 2 months maybe now, eating habbits, well I can't get small earthworms, all I have are the huge buggers you buy for bait when you go fishing. I'm still working on cutting the worms to the proper size, it's seems that if the newt goes to bite the food and misses...they reject and won't attempt again...is this normal. I am feeding them meal worms, the feedings seem to seriously vary between the four of them, but I'm guessing if one wasn't eating, it would be dead by now?
So yeah some advice would be greatly appreciated, I even tried out some feeder fish but on land they don't seem to want them. How long do they stay on land for anyways?
Thanks everyone! roud:

 

[Azhael]

Are your newts H.orientalis?
If they are terrestrial then it´s actually better to offer a smaller space, specially if you don´t hand-feed. They don´t move much so most of the space isn´t used anyway. If you are trying to get them aquatic then i´d suggest starting with shallow water first, then introduce them to a fully aquatic tank once they have adapted.

There´s no such thing as an specific time after which they´ll become aquatic. You just need to offer excellent water conditions and they´ll eventually go in by themselves. Having lots of plants near the surface helps a lot.

Mealworms are not a good choice, i wouldn´t use them if i were you, or if you do, only very sparangly. Try frozen bloodworms, waxworms, small crickets, isopods, etc. You may want to start a small worm culture so that you can have access to smaller worms.
Have you read this?:
Caudata Culture Species Entry - Cynops orientalis - Chinese firebelly

 

[fouramigos]

Hey,
Ok see this is where I am having issues...I don't know what kind they are exactly, I was told that they are fire bellied newts, bought out of an aquatic tank...again I wasn't there during the purchase and unfortunately the person who bought them for me, really wasn't paying attention to conditions or what's needed for their care.
When I placed them in my fish tank, they swam frantically round the tank until the reached the submersable filter and then they'd climp up on it and on top of each other and stay there for days on end.
Obviously this is when I found out that they go through a terestrial phase after they have morphed, but I don't find any info on how long they stay this was before being comfortable in water? Oddly enough I do recall some of them actually being in water, and diving down to the bottom and exploring, but I have no idea which ones they were or how come they stopped doing it.
I live in Ottawa Ontario Canada, and I'm having no luck in finding live feed for these guys, frozen bloods worms they won't touch. I don't know where to find any of the other things mentioned, regualr crickets I think are too small, I've heard of pin head crickets but can't find a seller.
If I want them to be aquatic, can I "make" them aqautic myself? I know it would consist of gradually adding water as they feel comfortable, but how much do I start with and when should I start making adjustments? I would prefer them aquatic or even semi would making feeding easier.
Thanks

 

[Azhael]

Well, if they were labeleld as firebelly newts then they are most likely Hypselotriton orientalis. They could other species, though, the term is used for a number of them (so very inefficient...).
Try to take a picture, and we´ll identify them for you, no problem.
Forcing them to be aquatic is a bad idea, there´s a risk of drowning. The ideal way to entice them to being aquatic is putting them in a tank with barely an inch of water, lots of plants and some emerged areas. By gradually encreasing the depth little by little (i don´t know, about an inch a week or so), it´s most likely they´ll become fully aquatic, unless they are ill or very stressed.
You can also put them in a fully cycled tank, full of water with just a piece of cork bark for them to rest on. This method only works well if you have lots of plants...really, LOTS. They need them to feel secure in the surface so that they can explore without having to swim.
The basics for happy, aquatic newts are a cycled tank, adequate temperature and no stress. If you manage that they won´t be a problem.

Could you not find isopods (woodlice) in a garden or a nearby wooded area? They are a great choice if you can get them from a chemical free area.
I´d give the worm culture a go if i were you, it takes nothing to set it up and maintain and will be a source of food for your animals whn you find other options difficult to get.

 

[fouramigos]

Ok,
So there is a pic of them in their previous set up which was mostly aquatic, then you can see they are moved into the plastic container...now as you can see they are up on the plasctic glass I have in there, but only after I have sprayed with water to moisten them and the substrate...is that ok?
I am sorry for this newbie stuff lol, if I had purchased them myself I would have done all this research first. I have a 10 gallon hexagon tank, their previous home, with a Beta fish, a snail, a ghost srimp, 9 little (supposed to be) feeder guppies, and to be honest, my snail is more active or busy than the four Amigos...I'm just concerned I am not giving them a happy healthy home...hence the reason I bought the 30 gallon tank lol!
Here are some pics roud:

 

[Azhael]

Ah, that might have been part of the problem. Fish and newts generally don´t mix. The betta is an agressive species that requires very different conditions than the newts, and 9 guppies can really stress them. Since they were already stressed from before they were purchased, that may have been the reason for them to leave the water.
A 10 gallon is ok, but it will be easier for you to provide good water quality in the 30 gallon. Cycling is crutial for the newts to accept the water. You can read about it in the CC articles (check my signature). You should really get a good read of those articles, they are full of excellent info. Use the search function to look for other threads that discuss similar situations, there are loads of them in the forum. You can also find interesting info in the Cynops section.

They are definitely Hypselotriton orientalis. I´d recommend adding leaf-litter to their terrestrial tank, and perhaps remove the water area, it´s not likely to get used at all. A bit of moss and some stacked pieces of bark would be better than the glass.
Also, the subtrate should be moist but not wet. Too much humidity can be a real problem when they are terrestrial.

Don´t hesitate to ask questions if you are left with doubts after you rumage around for info.

 

[SpaceCadetHayde]

The Betta and the guppies don't make good house mates for a newt. What temperature was your aquatic set-up at? Guppies and CFBN's have very different temperature preferences. Betta Fish have been known to pester other animals and could have stressed the animals out. The ghost shrimp however make fine housemates.

I have four juvenile cynops ensicauda popei that I am working up to keeping aquatically. Right now, I have them in 10 gallon with an inch of water, a large piece of wood for a haul out, and lots of free floating plants(hornwort, java moss, and anacharis). I'm doing what Azhael had mentioned and slowly increasing the water by about 1/2 inch a week and it seems to be working fine. Every day they can be seen exploring the water a little bit more and one of them only rarely comes out of the water.

Your newts appear to be H. Orientalis and from the aquarium picture, appear to be sub-adults or adults. Read their Care Sheet here. I can post a picture of my tank in a bit for an example of what Azhael is talking about.

 

[fouramigos]

Ahhh
Ok so I've fed them...3 out of the 4 ate tonight, 2 of those prefered the meal worm compared to fresh earthworms go figure!
I've also changed their set up, now I know in the pics it looks like I've soaked their substrate, but I had just sprayed them with mist to moisten the new enviroment. I've taken out the water and the plastic glass and added more rocks, sea shells and a piece of drift wood.
I fed them first, gave them time to finish with that and then changed the enviroment. I'll also include pics of my new tank with the current home inside, is it too big for them right now?
I've taken "measurement" pics of each newt, the seem to be about 3" long and you'll see the one that obviously doesn't eat as much as the others.
They haven't been in the tank with the fish in about a month now, as soon as I learned the were terestrial juveniles I took them out and kept them on land since...the occasional dunk in the wadding pool I had for them in hopes of inticing them to stay in. And I only got the guppies after as feeder fish, hoping to intice them into the water, but they had absolutely no interest, so now they live in the tank with the Beta, snail, dwarf frog and ghost shrimp.
What is sub-adult, and if they are adult shouldn't they be ok in the water then?

 

[SpaceCadetHayde]

They could be large/old enough for an aquatic set-up but if they've been kept terrestrially they'll still need to adapt. Try starting them out with an inch of water and a lot of rocks and plants for them to haul their heads out of the water on. They make take a while to adapt to this environment. Azhael's advice is spot-on. If the terrestrial set-up is working fine, no need to change it just yet. I'd wait until they're all well-established and eating in their current set-up before changing over as it can cause a great deal of stress.