Very odd new pachy import -pachy 'D'????

[paris]

i know the pachy complex has been expanded to 'D' now-but m not quite sure what they look like. i bought a pair from EK and have some photos of these unusual big headed pachys. the female is sick and though they dont fight in front of me-she does have some bite marks. so here are some photos of these guys-please if any of you see these in your LFS -let me know or grab them up, they are hard to get and their identity isnt even known-possibly a new species.

take a good look esp at these head shots-in many ways these look like P. labiatum -their size and head shape are what is different-the eyes are much more forward too-sort of sunk into the big head.

(Message edited by paris on January 03, 2005)

 

[erik]

It seems these guys are way more aggressive than any other Pachytriton. The 3 people that have them in the US (myself and Paris included)have all had terrible problems with aggression and related stress. Once separated they can bounce back ok, but they are difficult for sure.....

 

[paris]

ok-looks as if i'll have to separate them...

 

[erik]

since I am still amazed by these new "Pachytriton", I wanted to post a couple more pics. Some interesting differences from other Pachytriton I have seen:

1)huge head
2)massive adult size up to 9 or 10" TL
3)no spots on the tail of breeding males

When young they are similar in pattern to brevipes, but as they age the spots fade.

 

[erik]

another pic

 

[nate]

Wow, that is so weird...like a Pachyhynobius or a Batrachuperus. I wonder what it is about the Asian environment that makes that sort of head/eye structure beneficial. It seems almost like the precursor to a Cryptobranchid head.

 

[erik]

Yeah it's really similar to Cryptobranchus or Pachyhynobius head. These things are like a mix between Pachyhynobius/Pachytriton. I'll get some better, more recent shots. One pair has taken up residence in a cave which is encouraging....at least that pair isn't trying to kill each other.

I have seen what appears to be courtship but from what I have seen, it isn't anything like Pachytriton, no tail fanning at all. I wonder if Paris has seen any tail fanning????

 

[paris]

mine are lurkers.....

 

[henk]

Well Paris , Erik, this is in fact the type Jean and I described as being Pachytriton D. I agree with them being inbetween pachyhynobius & pachytriton. For now I have 2 of them here, bulky and easy stressed animals

 

[erik]

I took some more pics today. This group of four (2.1.1) is getting along well and no fighting for the past 3 weeks. One pair stays in the same pot nearly all the time.

Sorry for the bad quality, didn't want to disturb them too much.

 

[danny]

Erik, how did you get that hole in the clay pots? Ive been using the tile attachment on my dremel tool but it takes forever to get the job done.

 

[erik]

I used a spade bit and YES it takes a long time and the bit wears out fast. I just heard from a fish keeper that you can soak the pots overnight in water and then the job is very easy! These pots work well since animals can defend their cave easily. This is the only tank I have with pots and the only tank where there is not currently serious aggression.

 

[paris]

ed,
i want to comment back about the tail fanning, and see what henk or erik have to say on it to. i spent some time with them the other day and never once saw any tail fanning either-this is odd for a pachy.

danny,
i was able to put good sized holes in clay pots with a flathead screwdriver, i used a hammer with it on a damp pot and lightly chipped away at a flat angle till i got through, then carefully chipped away small amounts to make the hole bigger-ive got photos with these to post later.

 

[erik]

I am hoping to resurrect this thread. Any updates on who has this form? I still have 4.1. 2.1 are housed together now for almost a year with no issues and 2 other males are kept separate.

What I find interesting is that I have still not seen any tail fanning and still the males have not developed any tail spots. Is this what other people are seeing?

I know some other specimens came in, but they were sent to large importers and probably never made it into specialists collections.

One of my pairs spend most days in a clay pot together, but so far no breeding.

Erik

 

[paris]

nothing on this end, ive got 1.1 in one set up , sometimes they sit in the same pot together, the male by himself is of course out of the running. do you know of anyone else who has these in the US?

(Message edited by paris on July 21, 2005)

 

[erik]

I don't know anyone else who has them besides you and I, but I know they were imported again by a guy in Washington state. Unfortunately I think he sent his whole lot to big dealers who have no appreciation for the uniqueness of this form.

 

[paris]

major bummer there!