Underweight, high ammonia

[AxieTails]

TLDR: Neo has lost a lot of weight due to not eating and still seems uninterested in food. She looks unwell. She has been shedding skin in the past few weeks. I tested her water today and what stood out was a high ammonia count. Other stressors are possible. I think I need help on deciding what to tackle first to help her out.

Tank: 20 gallons, sand substrate, fake plants, Tetra-whisper in-tank filter.
Water: Last night it was at 69 degrees Fahrenheit, today it read 62. It is measured by this stainless steel thermometer. We've had a hot streak here, so I worry I made her experience too-hot temperatures. I'm wondering if this chiller that claims to lower temperatures 3-4 degrees would be worth it.
Today I ran a water test and got these parameters: 6.0 pH max (this is the lowest the kit will go), Ammonia: 4.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0 ppm, Nitrate: Around 40 ppm. The last time I did a water change (last week, and it was dirty) I treated it with half doses of Seachem Prime. I cannot remember if I fully replaced the filter bag or if I just thoroughly rinsed everything with hot water. Last night I topped up her water and treated the new water with a full dose.
Things that may be irrelevant but just in case: There has been some white foamy substance on the surface/around the filter lately. It's not in there now. / I recently moved a cat box to just a couple feet away. Her tank is elevated so they're not right next to each other, though some of the equipment I use is level with it.
I offer her Invert Aquatics soft pellets. I'm hesitant to get her more food (moral reasons, had a change of heart) and was hoping she would eat on these for a good while. I also have Repashy Grub Pie (and a deceased earthworm found outside, but that seems dangerous) if that's okay to try (Grub Pie seems to be Black Soldier Fly larvae with several nutritional and herbal supplements). She's eaten mainly pellets before.

I've had Neo for several years. She is about 6 years old. Her behavior is not entirely out of the ordinary (no laying on her side or anything) besides not eating and seeming sluggish. I pressed a pellet right up to her lip last night and she didn't go for it.
I'm assuming I should move her out of the tank. If so, do I put her straight into 100% new, conditioned water or do I add some from her tank? Is it okay to use my hands when transferring her?

Thank you for reading, I know it's a lot.

 

[wolfen]

your ammonia is high but safe, this is because your ph is bad, unfortunately your bio-filtration is probably damaged as well.
at a ph of 6 the ammonia in the tank is mainly locked into ammonium, ammonium is difficult for bacteria to break down hence the high levels, because the bacteria can't feed on the ammonia it means that they starve and the bacteria colony in the filtration/tank shrinks.
also ph at 6 is slightly acidic which is good for plants but bad for axolotls which are slight brackish moderate/hard water animals.
her gills are in poor condition as well although the regression can be done to protect herself from the water condition.
she will need to be tubbed in fresh dechlorinated water with 50% holtfreters+ 0.1g magnesium sulphate, also include daily 10 minute methyline blue baths, the holtfreters is to correct the waters chemistry and also assist with the removal of any nitrogen compounds (as well as helping gills to regrow), the methyline blue is to remove any nitrogen compounds in the blood.
whilst she is tubbed, add 50% holtfreters + magnesium sulphate to the tank, this will correct the ph kh and gh, test ammonia and nitrites daily, if it takes more than a couple of days for the levels to go to zero then the tank may require recycling (using filter start bacteria may prevent this) make sure both the tank and tub are oxygenated, keep the water in the tub cold.
get the kh and gh in the tap water tested.
using 50% modified holtfreters may need to be used at every water change to prevent further issues (the benefits of using holtfreters is worth the hassle of making it)
peltier plate chillers are more suitable for small nano tanks rather than anything larger than ten gallons, in anything larger the performance is the same as using an aquarium fan.

 

[AxieTails]

your ammonia is high but safe, this is because your ph is bad, unfortunately your bio-filtration is probably damaged as well.
at a ph of 6 the ammonia in the tank is mainly locked into ammonium, ammonium is difficult for bacteria to break down hence the high levels, because the bacteria can't feed on the ammonia it means that they starve and the bacteria colony in the filtration/tank shrinks.
also ph at 6 is slightly acidic which is good for plants but bad for axolotls which are slight brackish moderate/hard water animals.
her gills are in poor condition as well although the regression can be done to protect herself from the water condition.
she will need to be tubbed in fresh dechlorinated water with 50% holtfreters+ 0.1g magnesium sulphate, also include daily 10 minute methyline blue baths, the holtfreters is to correct the waters chemistry and also assist with the removal of any nitrogen compounds (as well as helping gills to regrow), the methyline blue is to remove any nitrogen compounds in the blood.
whilst she is tubbed, add 50% holtfreters + magnesium sulphate to the tank, this will correct the ph kh and gh, test ammonia and nitrites daily, if it takes more than a couple of days for the levels to go to zero then the tank may require recycling (using filter start bacteria may prevent this) make sure both the tank and tub are oxygenated, keep the water in the tub cold.
get the kh and gh in the tap water tested.
using 50% modified holtfreters may need to be used at every water change to prevent further issues (the benefits of using holtfreters is worth the hassle of making it)
peltier plate chillers are more suitable for small nano tanks rather than anything larger than ten gallons, in anything larger the performance is the same as using an aquarium fan.

Thank you for the reply. These solutions are new to me so I do have questions, if that's okay.
How do I find these compounds (the bath, holtfreters ingredients, etc.)? Is this Holtfreters Solution Salts Mixture (treats 5 gallons) a full Holtfreters or just part of it? I'm also not quite sure what you mean by the 50% and 0.1 grams. (How those add up, or generally what 50% means. My instinct is that it's half of the reccomended dosage)

So going forward I'm not changing the water in her tank (changing as in taking it out), only the tub.

That is unfortunate about the chiller. I wonder if there's a similarly priced one that works for 20 gallons.

 

[wolfen]

the solution you linked to is a modified holtfreters solution, the salt is slightly lower than 100% holtfreters where as the magnesium sulphate (which is an additional to holtfreters) is around 3x the strength used with 100% holtfreters, the potassium chloride is around the same as 100% holtfreters, 100% holtfreters also contains calcium chloride and bicarbonate of soda.
for holtfreters info here.. Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity
because of the amounts used to make holtfreters it is referred to as 100% holtfreters, so yes 50% is half.
your tank ph needs to be brought up to 7.4 - 7.6 which is also why I advised using holtfreters in the tank, bicarbonate of soda will increase the ph and kh, calcium/magnesium,potassium will improve the gh, the salt is benificial as a preventative against health problems and also protects against nitrogen compounds ie.. ammonia etc..
if you aren't wanting to use holtfreters use enough bicarbonate of soda to bring the ph to 7.4-7.6 this should help kick start the cycle again (bicarb will only increase ph and kh it won't increase gh or improve bad water) although it depends on the damage done to the biological filtration.
most chillers use compressed gas as a coolant as well as a compressor so aren't cheap.

 

[AxieTails]

Thank you for the clarification.

So the magnesium you referred to originally is like the modified holtfreters the writer of that page you linked says they use?
I also feel like they're mentioning pH up products in that section, but I could be wrong as I've heard others warn against it.

Understandable if you're not up for answering anymore.

As a general update to this thread: my mom offered both pellets and repashy to Neo and said she ate a bit of both (she's in a tub now). An employee from a store recommended changing the water regularly in the tank. I think I'll start with a 25-30% tomorrow.
I'm wondering if Seachem stability or API quick start would be good in this situation, in case the bacteria need a boost.

 

[wolfen]

the magnesium sulphate added is the same as the author mentioned, because magnesium is an essential mineral it is worth adding.
because companies don't have to declare the ingredients for some animal products (ie.. companies like Seachem) there is no indication as to whether a product is safe to use with amphibians which is why ph buffers are frowned upon, bicarbonate of soda which is used to increase ph/kh is an ingredient used in most ph up buffers (along with other ingredients) but is cheaper being brought from super markets etc.. rather than as a ph product in pet shops (bicarbonate of soda is also called sodium bicarbonate and baking soda)
because of the amount of waste produced by axolotls in is a good idea to change 20% - 50% water weekly.
whilst tubbed make sure the water in the tub is changed daily with dechlorinated water with 50% holtfreters + 0.1g magnesium sulphate, feed at night change water in morning.
stability and quick start are both bottled bacteria so they should help.

 

[AxieTails]

Updates 2: Neo looks better since being tubbed. She's eaten. I scoop her into a container of fresh water every 24 hours (not sure if I should be using gloves?)

I have not tried any solutions yet. My mom was wondering if we could do the John's Solution from axolotl.org (salt, epsom salt, and bicarb) since its simpler.
I suppose my hesitancy is a combination of people on forums seeming to warn against using salt for axies and that I do not have any hardness or salinity tests.
I don't have exact numbers but I was told by another aquarium store person that the tap water here is "very soft".
I will be ordering a gH and kH test.

I decided to test her tank water against the faucet. This is interesting:
Tank: 6.0 (minimum for this test)
Faucet: around 7.2!

I think I will try a bicarb solution in a container, just need to figure out a dose. If it doesn't seem crazy high, I'll add it to her tub and tank. I was also recommended driftwood/almond leaves and getting a more powerful filter with some kind of matrix media in the future.

 

[wolfen]

by the looks of it you have soft water which is why the tanks ph is at 6 but the tap is 7.2, soft water is low in carbonates and minerals.
axolotls are brackish moderate/hard water animals, they require salts/minerals.
johns solution can be used but the solution doesn't contain calcium which is an essential mineral, also the salt level is a bit low, it might be a good ideal to add either limestone rocks or crushed coral in a mesh bag to the tank to compensate for this, also double the salt level in johns solution to 2g/l for better protection and health benefits.

 

[AxieTails]

Update (maybe the last one as this thread is getting old):
Neo is still tubbed. It looks like she's gained some weight. Her gills have more color and she's been passing stool.
I've been a little paralyzed on getting her back in the tank.

Her tank kH is 2 degrees (1 drop needed after intial drop to change the water's color), gH is 4 degrees measured the same way.
I will test straight tapwater out of curiosity.

So I think I should pursue the Holtfreter's. I also got a refractometer because I'm under the impression they have a low salinity tolerance. Not sure if I should still pursue the methyline blue as well.

 

[wolfen]

axolotls are slight brackish moderate/hard water animals, a low level of salt is beneficial to health and protects against common issues that axolotls are prone to, minerals in the water is beneficial to health.
the amount of salt used in 50% holtfreters (1.75g/l) barely registers on an refractometer and is quite harmless and used for health and a preventative, salt at 100% holtfreters (3.5g/l) is used medicinally but is still harmless though not advised for eggs (for eggs 1-2g/l is best for optimum hatch rate and growth), salt levels in A.R.S (amphibian ringers solution 6.6g/l a bit like double strength holtfreters) is for medicinal use and are only for short periods <24hrs, salt baths (can be 5-20g/l salt and amount of time can be between 3-5 days or as little as 5-10 min (depending on condition being treated and amount of salt used.. see formulary)
for an animal that some state are intolerant to salt it is strange that it is the most beneficial substance in regards to axolotls.
in an aquarium using almond/catappa leaves, tannic/fulvic/humic acids (black water) are beneficial to axolotls but the kh needs to be good or the ph can drop.